Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,580
# 61
11-02-2012, 11:53 PM
Complain all you want but you are asking for the wrong things. And some of you are simultaniously complaining about then asking for the same things.

For instance "KDF uniqueness is being sold out, I want a sci ship." That there highlights the general misunderstanding. If you don't get it the KDF has the BOP somthing the fed side doesen't have. In return the feds get science vessels. In fact the KDF can buy science vessels but the feds can not buy a bop like vessel so there ya go.

As for carriers again most arguments are heavily flawed. Yes the federation HAS been seen using small craft to fight in large scale battles We can only assume that they were carried there by a mother ship, Its also just as safe to assume the periguin flew there under its own power. No the periguin doesn't count as a fighter as its understood today since it has a crew of about 5. Yed origionaly The carrier class vessel was supposed to be kdf only but the again the science vessel was supposed to be fed only. In fact origionaly before C-store ships the kdf had more end game ship choices than the feds (as far as classes go).

Besides the bulk of the kdf fleet lies at lower levels the total number of ships is almost identical considering that 6 of the fed ships exist at levels that don't exist for the kdf.



Read this....
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=386491
It's a generalized breakdown on where shipping lies and what exactly the differences are for better or worse.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,391
# 62
11-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
What? The @#$%? Are you smoking? How is the Atrox anything BUT a carrier? It's too slow and unwieldy to be a science ship, which is the only other alternative. It has two hangar bays. A ton of HP. Strong shields. Lots of sci capability. All I see when I see one of those is a carrier. Nothing else.

And the Armitage is an escort carrier. Not a true carrier. But seriously, how is the Atrox NOT a dedicated carrier???
It wasn't designed or built by the Federation only the Caitions.

This the first game that came with fighters.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...AD13CB&first=0
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers

Last edited by age03; 11-03-2012 at 12:20 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 63
11-03-2012, 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
--------------------

If you look closely using freeze frame those ships were
Were much larger than fighters bigger than runabouts
They're the same Peregrines we have in STO. Exactly the same damn ship. They're called attack fighters. They look identical. They behave like fighters. How physically large they are is utterly irrelevant.

Denying the existence of starfleet fighters in cannon is an argument that bears no resemblance to reality at all.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,542
# 64
11-03-2012, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
It wasn't designed or built by the Federation only the Caitions.

This the first game that came with fighters.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...AD13CB&first=0
So it was designed by cat people. How does that make it NOT a dedicated carrier? Who cares who built it! It is still almost exclusively a carrier is it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
They got one the Atrox.
Make up your mind, is it a carrier or not???
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 65
11-03-2012, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
So it was designed by cat people. How does that make it NOT a dedicated carrier? Who cares who built it! It is still almost exclusively a carrier is it not?
I think his point is that he wants something that's designed from the ground up in the Fed style as a carrier with Peregrines or something standard, with the classic nacelle-and-saucer, basic design.

That sort of thing.

I can actually get behind that. The Caitan carrier seems to have been designed to avoid the whole "federation doesn't use carriers" (although that doesn't satisfy anyone, of course).

And then, well, the Armitage and the Vesta...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,542
# 66
11-03-2012, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
I think his point is that he wants something that's designed from the ground up in the Fed style as a carrier with Peregrines or something standard, with the classic nacelle-and-saucer, basic design.

That sort of thing.

I can actually get behind that. The Caitan carrier seems to have been designed to avoid the whole "federation doesn't use carriers" (although that doesn't satisfy anyone, of course).

And then, well, the Armitage and the Vesta...
I don't think he has a point. And if that was his point, then he didn't iterate properly, if at all. He had the gall to say that the Atrox wasn't a dedicated carrier. The Atrox is NOTHING else. It's not an escort like the Armitage, or a Science Cruiser like the Vesta will be. It's a CARRIER. Pure and simple.

And if he wanted an Federation designed carrier, then he should have said so. As is, he just made himself look foolish.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 67
11-03-2012, 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I don't think he has a point. And if that was his point, then he didn't iterate properly, if at all. He had the gall to say that the Atrox wasn't a dedicated carrier. The Atrox is NOTHING else. It's not an escort like the Armitage, or a Science Cruiser like the Vesta will be. It's a CARRIER. Pure and simple.
What do you mean 'dedicated carrier'? The Atrox is definitely a cross between a science ship and a carrier, with a science ship's weapons fit and shield modifier and a heavy science bias in its bridge officer component (not to mention subsystem targeting).

While it's true that the Armitage is a cross between an escort and a carrier, and the Vesta is a science/cruiser/thing with a hangar bay tacked on...that doesn't really make the Atrox a "dedicated carrier".
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,132
# 68
11-03-2012, 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishkin View Post
They're the same Peregrines we have in STO. Exactly the same damn ship. They're called attack fighters. They look identical. They behave like fighters. How physically large they are is utterly irrelevant.

Denying the existence of starfleet fighters in cannon is an argument that bears no resemblance to reality at all.
-------------------

Size does matter it matters a lot

And ds9 and voyager are both considered
( soft cannon )

Fighter 1 to 2 crewman
Corvette 5 to 25 man crew

Cannon does not support Feds using fighters
Soft cannon the sky is the limit read a few books
I'n the time frame of ds9 and voyager and some stuff
Is really way out there

Enterprise is the only tv series other than tos that
Obeyed cannon, Tos was making cannon

TNG some of the time , good weeks anyway

Carriers and fighters arnt even handled properly I'n STO
Anyway , unlimited pilots and crew ? Please !

Just spam the button !
Sorry there bit it's true, whatever makes you happy my friend
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 69
11-03-2012, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jellico1 View Post
Size does matter it matters a lot
Sisko flat out says that they're fighters! They're identical to what we have in the game, again as fighters. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever they're not fighters. They might be 50 meters long (they aren't), and that wouldn't stop them from being fighters.
Quote:
And ds9 and voyager are both considered
( soft cannon )
Don't be absurd. DS9 and Voyager are both hard canon for the Star Trek franchise. According to CBS:

"Although the Animated Adventures had an undeniable Star Trek-ness to them, they are not considered part of the Star Trek "canon," or accepted Trek storyline. Almost without exception, it is the live-action series and movies that are considered canon. However, some Star Trek "facts" are actually borrowed from the animated show, i.e. the name of the original U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 captain, Robert April; the surname for Spock's mother, Amanda "Grayson"; etc."

Quote:
Cannon does not support Feds using fighters
Sorry, not true.

1. CBS decides what's canon for Star Trek, not you.
2. CBS says that the live-action series and movies are canon (with exceptions from facts borrowed from other, softer canon)
3. Fighters were seen and described in DS9, particularly in Sacrifice of Angels.
4. DS9 is a live-action series of Star Trek

Therefore: Fighters are canon for the Federation in Star Trek.

Your claims to the contrary have no basis in reality whatsoever.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 70
11-04-2012, 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I wish feds would get over thier Pedastel complex, its a very annoying for the KDF to keep being told to "be happy" with the things we are not happy with about KDF gameplay.
If only the KDF had a pedestal complex of their own! Maybe they would be able to metaphorically stand on it and see how Cryptic's hands have been mostly tied but have nonetheless made their faction have lots of QoL and unique advantages clearly designed to make up for their perceived "slighting" of the KDF.

Its funny really, when the complaints of being a half faction are thrown about you never hear a peep about the design bias several systems have in their favor. But no worries, I'll be sure to bring them up every now and then!
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