Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 790
# 31
10-25-2012, 05:10 PM
they are giving a much need facelift to fleet version why stf store is pulled


it needs a fix big time I am about to get it now
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,337
# 32
10-25-2012, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
To be honest I'd fully agree, but people would probably just flock to the ResA Fleet shields instead.

I think flat resistances against any energy type were a mistake to begin with... I mean look what killed off plasma weapons completely.
I agree. Fleet shields wouldn't be that bad, because you can still equip weapons that most don't resist against.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 595
# 33
10-25-2012, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
The difference is, people only look on the cap, and do not see what reg shields allow you (at a cost of course).
no...

many people look at the cap only, however the borg shield is not good as the maco/omega shield for others different reasons: while the borg shield has a good regeneration rate and (only) 15% plasma resistance, the maco shield has 5% Absorption, 5% Bleedthrough, 20% plasma resistance and 10% all energy resistance. The omega shield has 10% Bleedthrough like the borg one, but also a +5% plasma resistance more and a regeneration rate very similar to the borg shield.
If you look at the bog shield only then it is not as good as the maco/omega one.

The real advantage of the borg set is the 3-piece proc (multi regenerative shield array), and you can get it without using the borg shield. By removing the borg console from the set, you have to use also the shield (and may be the borg set will become usefull).
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 367
# 34
10-26-2012, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
no...

many people look at the cap only, however the borg shield is not good as the maco/omega shield for others different reasons: while the borg shield has a good regeneration rate and (only) 15% plasma resistance, the maco shield has 5% Absorption, 5% Bleedthrough, 20% plasma resistance and 10% all energy resistance. The omega shield has 10% Bleedthrough like the borg one, but also a +5% plasma resistance more and a regeneration rate very similar to the borg shield.
If you look at the bog shield only then it is not as good as the maco/omega one.

The real advantage of the borg set is the 3-piece proc (multi regenerative shield array), and you can get it without using the borg shield. By removing the borg console from the set, you have to use also the shield (and may be the borg set will become usefull).
nailed it on the head good sir.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 35
10-26-2012, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
That's a patently idiotic comment. They reduce your ability to take damage, so they will then reduce the damage? This hasn't been the pattern in a year straight. They are constantly making the borg weapons stronger every update.....
Fear not! With the new up and coming rep system you can buff your defenses! You just need to get the highest level passive powers! How thoughtful of them right?

This is probably why they are really looking to nerf healing, to make room for the rep system's defensive passives.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 36
10-26-2012, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
no...

many people look at the cap only, however the borg shield is not good as the maco/omega shield for others different reasons: while the borg shield has a good regeneration rate and (only) 15% plasma resistance, the maco shield has 5% Absorption, 5% Bleedthrough, 20% plasma resistance and 10% all energy resistance. The omega shield has 10% Bleedthrough like the borg one, but also a +5% plasma resistance more and a regeneration rate very similar to the borg shield.
If you look at the bog shield only then it is not as good as the maco/omega one.

The real advantage of the borg set is the 3-piece proc (multi regenerative shield array), and you can get it without using the borg shield. By removing the borg console from the set, you have to use also the shield (and may be the borg set will become usefull).
What you say is true, but you were missing my point. You have different playstyle with reg shields than with other shields. People just are too used to high cap / absorb shields, and not the reg playstyle, hence every reg shield is crap in their eyes.

The borg shield even in its current form, is one of the best - if not best - regenerative shield out there. Also the values of the borg shields reflect Mk X. So mk XII would have higher stats - even higher regen.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 595
# 37
10-26-2012, 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
What you say is true, but you were missing my point. You have different playstyle with reg shields than with other shields. People just are too used to high cap / absorb shields, and not the reg playstyle, hence every reg shield is crap in their eyes.

The borg shield even in its current form, is one of the best - if not best - regenerative shield out there. Also the values of the borg shields reflect Mk X. So mk XII would have higher stats - even higher regen.

I know playstyle is important, but often is not so much important... often you have to adjust your playstyle based on your ship, and others constrains (es. shared cooldown).

Based on several tests, a rigenerative shield is good only if you can expect to survive for a long time (at least one minute or more). This can be true in most pve, rarely in pvp.
Moreover, an escort usually have advantage in using shield with a greater cap because if you use an escort for sure you have slots to use tactical team every 15 seconds. Sci vessels usually have better shield stats, but only one lt tactical boff... using one TT on a sci vessel can be a waste, you need some dps... passive defense isn't enough.

Last edited by eurialo; 10-26-2012 at 03:04 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 38
10-26-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
I know playstyle is important, but often is not so much important... often you have to adjust your playstyle based on your ship, and others constrains (es. shared cooldown).

Based on several tests, a rigenerative shield is good only if you can expect to survive for a long time (at least one minute or more). This can be true in most pve, rarely in pvp.
Moreover, an escort usually have advantage in using shield with a greater cap because if you use an escort for sure you have slots to use tactical team every 15 seconds. Sci vessels usually have better shield stats, but only one lt tactical boff... using one TT on a sci vessel can be a waste, you need some dps... passive defense isn't enough.
What does this have to do with the fact that borg shields are completely fine REGENERATIVE shields ? People do not like them, well that's problem of them, not the shields.

What is true however, is that the shield heal proc is a waste on regenerative shields. And would be better off reworked into dmg reduction proc.

And btw, if you do not expect to survive long time in pvp, you do it wrong
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 115
# 39
10-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
The biggest issue is you are going to be one shot constantly with the borg shield in elite STFs, the thing becomes unusable; it is unlikely they will get fixed because the devs have almost no understanding of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
Closed a loophole? Brother, please!

They don't play this game. They don't even acknowledge the PROBLEMS we are facing. My fleet battlecruier, with cruiser shields and hull, with field generators and KHG mk XII shields, still is 1-shotted instantly through full shields and hull multiple times a day...
...They're finding solutions to problems that don't exist, and hosing systems that aren't broken in the process. Further they ignore the massive game breaking problems that run rampant every day. In CSE yesterday I was 1-shotted by cube defending negh'vars firing ISO charges, on EVERY cube. 3 of us died instantly every time they spawned. No delay, no pause, before they even finished decloaking we had instant kill iso charges wiping out the team. EVERY TIME...
..Damage doesn't register properly, even when it's less than lethal. Damage to hull bypasses sheilds no matter what shield level. Then hull KEEPS dropping after the impact stops, and you cannot heal it. HE and ET and A2SIF failed to stop my hull drop even though I fired them all off in sequence, and I still died (no plasma, no incoming damage, just kept dying). It continues to drop (with no plasma) well after the fact. Polarize hull doesn't always stop tractor beams.

STFs are woefully frakked to hell and gone. They are broken systematically from the ground up. And yet they are making things worse by handicapping your options re: set bonuses?
Closing a loophole my arse. They're just so out of freaking touch they have no clue what they're doing.

I'm all for rebalancing the drop rates and tables, etc. That's not what this is. This is a sweeping change meant to reduce dilithium to make the game a far worse grind than it is, and to further artificially make everything harder not by requiring skill but simply by making you all die in 1 shot every time you see an enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
No, don't blame the setup. It's not unique to that ship or that character. All my chars have set shields and all of them get popped through shields instantly. The ISO charge is such bullcrap it needs instant removal from the game. There's no reason to ever EVER have put this on NPC ships. EVER. Period. Let alone put it on ships and jack the damage THROUGH THE ROOF to the point of 1-shotting oddy cruisers with maco XII shields. Yes, that's happened to my fed as well.

...You can check yourself in combatlog stats tracker. It tells you what the enemy damage was to you. It tells you what the max crit was. You can then go into each and every hit if you like. It's absurd, the way this is programmed.
Some good points... from all. And to be honest what we are all discussing is a basic truth.
  • The dev's do not play their own game and have no clue of its true mechanics.
This was painfully obvious when they got their normal characters and pvp random groups on tribble during an event...
  • Some decisions, while on the surface were good calls on a spreadsheet, in true game mechanics on the live server were terrible and even catastrophic changes.
The issue with most of this is poor Q/A, which honestly I do not fault the dev's they are doing their job team, they are Developers and they are cranking out a good amount of things.
Such Q/A issues are the fault however of Management, the blame clearly lies on them...
  • to either control the flow in a timely manner to ensure product is reaching their clients on deadlines set
  • or to oversee proper control/quality procedures of their product. Yes its a MMO, things will break, but if they did, those changes would be instantly removed until that could be applied correctly without the break.

Now as far as space combat needing a change....
...more like a major overhaul. Question is, Should we? I am sure the devs have the expertise to do it, but the question still remains... should we?

Consider this, simply scrapping the entire system is a logistical nightmare, might as well scrap the game. In truth we are only talking about a few simple things wrong that need to be ironed out.

While we may not agree to the "how" or "what" they are ironing out, I sit back and watch where they are going. A few things I see happening are the following...
  1. Direction
  2. Purpose

No, I did not say Q/A, that is still a work in progress, and THAT needs to be overhauled badly. Still just recently we are starting to see work coming forth that is leading the combat system to a vision.

Personally I would like to see the end result or even a vision of where it is going before making a comment.

We can all agree sometimes the "execution" has been... ummm lacking.
Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,045
# 40
10-26-2012, 08:03 PM
By their own admission they don't track who's working on what. They can't even get a simple changelog for each patch. They have no cohesion and no accountability. They are not working towards a vision any more than 5 people editing different 25-minute segments of a film, only none of them talks to each other. There is no direction.

As for their purpose? Painfully clear. Stop actually working on the game and add restrictions to slow anybody down because they stopped working on the game. In the absence of content they have produced a truly mind-numbing grinder, and it's getting worse with the new STF change. This change does NOT just make things more fair. It makes things cost BUTTLOADS of dilithium, and reduces how much dilithium you get.

It's nothing but a grind. They want you to pay real world money on zen, to convert to dilithium, to get anything done. The game is no longer F2P, in their eyes. Look at the idiotic starbase projects all requiring 200k dilithium for nothing in return. Look at everything that's been happening lately.

I see no direction at all, but a whole lot of purpose. Deadly, sinister purpose. It's really hurting the game. If S7 releases as described I and many others will simply stop playing. Doffs cost 1000 dil? I stop doing doffs. STF rewards are actually part of a grind you have to pay loads for? I stop doing STFs. It's not a reward if it costs you 8000-32000 dilithium PER ITEM.

The game gets driven into the ground? Folks leave that game en masse.
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