Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 81
11-03-2012, 06:02 PM
I'n all cannon and I'n all games board and pc
Before this game torpedoes were the most damaging
Ship weapon .

STO nerfed torpedo damage to shields period

Why ?

Perhaps it hurt there pet Tactial players who give
Them all the cash because science and cruisers have
Such poor Dps few consider spending money on a better
Ship just to suck a little less.

Maybe they had other reasons as well

Most ( cannon ) things from star trek has also been
Nerfed as well except the looks of the ships

Torpedoes doing correct damage to shields would do a
Lot to narrow the damage gulf between the classes is most
Likely the reason why torpedoes damage against shields is I'n
Place.
It would make a Tactical players life miserable because they would
Have to start maneuvering and using tactics to win
Verses slamming there linked keybinds

Star trek fans know what's right about how ships
Should perform

Case I'n point

The USS odyssey was attacked by 3 jem hadar bugs
For almost 10 minutes while the galaxy class ship had
No shields and under fire from phased polaron beams
Reducing it's power.
One bug had to ram the odyssey to keep it from
Retreating

3 bugs I'n STO can destroy a galaxy class ship I'n a
Few seconds with full shields


Torpedo damage against shields should be full
Damage I'n my opinion
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 420
# 82
11-03-2012, 07:46 PM
There is no 'tactical' conspiracy, that doesn't even make sense - the VAST majority of players run cruisers, not escorts, so why on earth would Cryptic deliberately make cruisers underperform?

As for canon value of torps, it varies wildly from show to show (and even episode to episode), so, not a great guide.

Your assertion about tacticals not wanting torps to do full damage to shields because it would somehow nerf them? I'm not understanding that - did you stop to think about what that would really look like? Here's a hint - Tricobalt torps, backed up with High Yield III, Omega III, Attack pattern Alpha, Go down fighting, and Tactical fleet, all deployed at nearly point blank range from a decloaking fleet Defiant with 5 Subspace Infuser consoles. Yeah, THAT's why people don't want a torp buff like this - because torps are already VERY GOOD if used well, and many of these 'fixes' would instantly make the problem you are trying to solve WORSE, not better.

Finally, as far as the whole 'galaxy can hold off 3 attack craft' thing - guess what? Good Galaxy captains can do basically that exact thing, right now. Yay! Game matches canon! Of course, if YOU can't do that, it's okay - that matches canon too - not every captain was equally capable. For example, in 'Chain of Command' in TNG, Edward Jellico... oh... right... awkward.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 83
11-04-2012, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
not entirely true, you get credit for healing done, dmg done, assistant kills, and objectives completed...half of those do not include dealing dmg.
example: starbase 24, if you heal yourself while taking the beating from multiple ships (tanking) you will end up first place and get the shiny

LOLWUT

This is not only wrong but potentially harmful to players trying to get the loot. As it currently stands, it's all about damage/dps, plain and simple. I wish you were right, but you ain't, unless you have some documentation.....
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,742
# 84
11-04-2012, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtshead View Post
There is no 'tactical' conspiracy, that doesn't even make sense - the VAST majority of players run cruisers, not escorts, so why on earth would Cryptic deliberately make cruisers underperform?
I ment cryptic alone not any players, I have a Tac character myself
As for canon value of torps, it varies wildly from show to show (and even episode to episode), so, not a great guide.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]Check out the Fasa starship construction manual that's how the creator Gene R wanted it to be[/color]
Your assertion about tacticals not wanting torps to do full damage to shields because it would somehow nerf them? I'm not understanding that - did you stop to think about what that would really look like? Here's a hint - Tricobalt torps, backed up with High Yield III, Omega III, Attack pattern Alpha, Go down fighting, and Tactical fleet, all deployed at nearly point blank range from a decloaking fleet Defiant with 5 Subspace Infuser consoles. Yeah, THAT's why people don't want a torp buff like this - because torps are already VERY GOOD if used well, and many of these 'fixes' would instantly make the problem you are trying to solve WORSE, not better.
Then the problem is with the fleet defiant/ cloaked attack not the rest of the ships I'n the game/ I'n cannon cloaking devices were devastating weapons, that's why a cloaked ship coated more than 10x the cost of a non cloaked ship which is not reflected I'n STO
Finally, as far as the whole 'galaxy can hold off 3 attack craft' thing - guess what? Good Galaxy captains can do basically that exact thing, right now. Yay! Game matches canon! Of course, if YOU can't do that, it's okay - that matches canon too - not every captain was equally capable. For example, in 'Chain of Command' in TNG, Edward Jellico... oh... right... awkward.
[COLOR="rgb(65, 105, 225)"]You found me out ! Yes my character is named after that Edward Jellico[/color]
Using colors is tuff on a I phone sorry
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse

Last edited by jellico1; 11-04-2012 at 01:02 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,037
# 85
11-04-2012, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
LOLWUT

This is not only wrong but potentially harmful to players trying to get the loot. As it currently stands, it's all about damage/dps, plain and simple. I wish you were right, but you ain't, unless you have some documentation.....


believe it or not, but shield heals are part of the calculation. Also mission goal participation does get counted in.
my advice for cruiser or sci vessels to achieve first place: get AOE dmg abilities (torp spread, grav well, TBR, fire at will, Warp plasma, DEM, the reflect dmg ability) you only need to hit enemies, you do not need to get a killing blow. You actually just need to hit as many enemies as possible and not get blown up (heal yourself) if you do that, you should be first.

if people use abilities like viral matrix, scramble sensors, or some other rather defensive abilities they will end up last ofcourse, but thats because people use abilities that are not fitted to win a fleet action. Any ship can win a fleet action if build to do so. Actually cruisers have an edge in certain fleet actions like gorn minefield or starbase 24, since they can pull aggro of multiple grps and wear them down. I have seen cruisers killing off the frigate grps, not contributing to the mission, but beeing first just because they accumulated insane dmg and heal numbers. i know that, because i started doing it myself.

if somebody still can't win a fleet action, then jump into an escort and try your luck. you will find out that it is not that easy to win one in an escort either. No class is restricted to one type of ship. If you feel escorts are better to win a fleet action then please get one yourself.
I personally won a gorn minefield with a intrepid retrofit, and a starbase 24 with a oddy starcruiser. a friend won a klingon scout force with his excelsior.

PS: you do not need to believe me, but dmg dealt is not the only measurement in fleet actions...be it ground or space. However it is true that it is the most important one since the mission goals allways involve killing x of that type of ship. and that was the reason i wrote "not entirely true"

for the documentation of what i wrote: i simply do not have the time to reread all patch notes since 2011, but somewhere in the bginning of 2011 shield heals were added to the calculation.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 11-04-2012 at 01:25 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 86
11-04-2012, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
believe it or not, but shield heals are part of the calculation. Also mission goal participation does get counted in.
my advice for cruiser or sci vessels to achieve first place: get AOE dmg abilities (torp spread, grav well, TBR, fire at will, Warp plasma, DEM, the reflect dmg ability) you only need to hit enemies, you do not need to get a killing blow. You actually just need to hit as many enemies as possible and not get blown up (heal yourself) if you do that, you should be first.

if people use abilities like viral matrix, scramble sensors, or some other rather defensive abilities they will end up last ofcourse, but thats because people use abilities that are not fitted to win a fleet action. Any ship can win a fleet action if build to do so. Actually cruisers have an edge in certain fleet actions like gorn minefield or starbase 24, since they can pull aggro of multiple grps and wear them down. I have seen cruisers killing off the frigate grps, not contributing to the mission, but beeing first just because they accumulated insane dmg and heal numbers. i know that, because i started doing it myself.

if somebody still can't win a fleet action, then jump into an escort and try your luck. you will find out that it is not that easy to win one in an escort either. No class is restricted to one type of ship. If you feel escorts are better to win a fleet action then please get one yourself.
I personally won a gorn minefield with a intrepid retrofit, and a starbase 24 with a oddy starcruiser. a friend won a klingon scout force with his excelsior.

PS: you do not need to believe me, but dmg dealt is not the only measurement in fleet actions...be it ground or space. However it is true that it is the most important one since the mission goals allways involve killing x of that type of ship. and that was the reason i wrote "not entirely true"

for the documentation of what i wrote: i simply do not have the time to reread all patch notes since 2011, but somewhere in the bginning of 2011 shield heals were added to the calculation.

Than ks for the reply, but this is still conjecture, and dare I say, wishful thinking. Do you have anything to back this up?
Did you play SB 24 back when it used to post scores?I could heal everyone and not fire a shot and i would have ZILCH points....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,037
# 87
11-04-2012, 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
Than ks for the reply, but this is still conjecture, and dare I say, wishful thinking. Do you have anything to back this up?
Did you play SB 24 back when it used to post scores?I could heal everyone and not fire a shot and i would have ZILCH points....
found it...only took about 45 mins or so...

a statement of Dstahl: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...424271&page=80

you need to scroll all the way down to the bottom of page 80, where dStahl is quoted, there he clearly states the the objectives are the most important ones.

or even better: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...on#post6263721

you even managed to be a poster on that very page...thx for letting me search something you actually posted in and probably read already.
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 11-04-2012 at 08:09 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,173
# 88
11-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baudl View Post
found it...only took about 45 mins or so...

a statement of Dstahl: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...424271&page=80

you need to scroll all the way down to the bottom of page 80, where dStahl is quoted, there he clearly states the the objectives are the most important ones.

or even better: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...on#post6263721

you even managed to be a poster on that very page...thx for letting me search something you actually posted in and probably read already.
1) I still see nothing about assists or healing. Nothing. Can you show me in case I missed it?

2) "Interactions"? They could be anything, but are more likley "Getting the freighter to escape the gorn minefield" and "Downloading Critical Data" - rather than buffing a teammate or healing...

3) For some reason I thought he was speaking to the newer, s-7 fleet actions. I could be wrong.

4) He pretty much said that most of them are based on damage.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,037
# 89
11-04-2012, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by badname834854 View Post
1) I still see nothing about assists or healing. Nothing. Can you show me in case I missed it?

2) "Interactions"? They could be anything, but are more likley "Getting the freighter to escape the gorn minefield" and "Downloading Critical Data" - rather than buffing a teammate or healing...

3) For some reason I thought he was speaking to the newer, s-7 fleet actions. I could be wrong.

4) He pretty much said that most of them are based on damage.
i can't force you to understand what is written there. But the score is definately not 100% dmg based.
I'm pretty sure that shield heal is also part of the score, but i couldn't find any source for that. (needs more research time, but i'll be on to it)
every fleet action is different, some favour dmg more, other favour the mission goal completion or other factors.

Quote:
Btw... Fleet Action scoring is set up differently in every Fleet Action and is not entirely based on DPS, but rather objective scoring.

I've asked the team to come up with a scoring chart so that you can see what different objectives mean from a score perspective (for example in some fleet actions interactions are worth a lot of points and that has nothing to do with DPS). A lot of the Fleet Actions do value "Kills" in scoring, but we are reviewing that as well.

In addition, we have decided to nix the X2 Dilithium bonus for Gold and instead provide a x2 Purple gear and keep the Dilithium consistent across all players.
(thats from the dastahl statement)

doesn't leave much room for interpretation, yet you found some room to asume stuff in your points 2 - 4.
And the assists ARE the dmg dealt.

if you are still convince the score consists only of dmg dealt or kills, so be it...but it doesn't make it true. and if the statement of lead developer is not enough, what will be?
Go pro or go home

Last edited by baudl; 11-04-2012 at 02:11 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 90
11-04-2012, 09:29 PM
He doesn't mean healing, he means that certain kill targets are weighted more than others. (Personally I still think the map is just about who gets the highest total damage but there's a school of thought that believes your score depends on how many of the mission target NPCs you vape).

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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