Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 170
My fleet recently reached Starbase tier3 Military and I was on the very excited verge of upgrading my Retrofit Defiant to a Fleet version. Sadly I have been working under the delusion that C-store ships would be upgradable to their Fleet equivalents for only 1 Module. ... WRONG! I thought I read that somewhere, right?

Now I'm not blaming Crypt for my ignorance. I am blaming them for theirs.

I've researched and read that Cryptic's reason for not allowing VA ships variants that existed prior to F2P to be upgraded to Fleet versions for 1 Mod is ... the ships were "free."

With all due respect ... BS! As an early adapter of STO (not beta, but I?ve been here since launch ...), I remember paying to play. I paid monthly ... I have the chargecard statements to prove it. In the "old days" a monthly subscrip was $15.00. Since F2P, the average c-store ship is $25.00 (I think, I haven?t purchased one). Well I didn?t just play one month to reach VA back in the day, I was here for months. Each one the privilege of playing $15 for my continued enjoyment. That was my decision and I was happy with it.

But for Cryptic to say I didn?t "pay for my VA Retrofit Defiant" is IMHO complete BS. It was definitely paid for. So ... why the short-term memory? Why the ignorance and blind eye to those those were there at the beginning?

Fine ... whatever ... that was under Atari, this is under PWE ... Cryptic is still the universal constant in all this change.

There?ve been a lot of casting stones at Cryptic lately with all the proposed changes coming to S7. There's been an overuse of language like "it was never intended ..." and yet many of what's being change survived S1 - S6. A hell of a long time to be "unintended."

I know one thing that was intended. The requirement I pay to play at the launch of STO and for years following. You have the programming and the metadata to substantiate what you will ... I believe (strongly) those who "earned" their VA ship tokens under the paid system did pay for their ships. Otherwise they couldn?t have signed on to play at all, ?free? ship or not.

I don?t expect Cryptic to change their policy. I also don?t expect to get my Fleet Defiant. I just wanted to vent my thoughts, and call Cryptic out on what I see is a horrendous lack of recognition for the paid days on their part.

STO is F2P now, and it was P2P before, and whatever the case ... playing at all is a choice. That's on me. But as of late Cryptic has been pissin' on what I used to appreciate in this game (yes, I know it's a for profit business ... still it's a game generating profit!) and while I?m not silly enough to cry BS slogans like "I?m out of here, I?m never coming back, STO's FUBAR and I?m gone - so long suckers," I am seriously considering putting more time in what else I play and what may be new to come.

My interested in leaving is on you Cryptic.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,748
# 2
10-25-2012, 10:00 AM
You paid money to access the server so you could play the game.

the ship was considered free, mainly when compared to the c-store ships which were not free.

yes we can argue that everything in the game is not free simply because we had to pay a sub but thats not really how they are viewed. at anypoint during the period before free to play, ships and items you were given without paying extra were considered free.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 114
# 3
10-25-2012, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
You paid money to access the server so you could play the game.

the ship was considered free, mainly when compared to the c-store ships which were not free.

yes we can argue that everything in the game is not free simply because we had to pay a sub but thats not really how they are viewed. at anypoint during the period before free to play, ships and items you were given without paying extra were considered free.
Not really the case, bare with me.

When the oh so unpopular Cstore was first introduced, we the players were told, "Ever ship in the cstore can be gotten through in game means". ie, grind a specific mark, turn it in, get your Cstore ship WITHOUT spending real money.

This means BOTH ships, whether purchased in the CSTOR or through MARK conversion held the same value, one took TIME, which was considered its own currency, and one took cash, a SUBSTITUTE for time in game.

I would contend that they BOTH were paid for, and neither was FREE. The system was put in place to allow freedom of choice on how you aquired it, so why should one have more value now?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 688
# 4
10-25-2012, 10:22 AM
Did you A) buy your original Defiant from the Z-store or B) get it from the shipyard with dilithium or the VA ship token? Cause it seems to me, that might make the difference.

If you bought the Z-store unlock, it should go for 1 FSM, not 4. If not, it's no less 'free' than all the others. I bought all three of the original VA ships when they did the 50% off thing directly before or following F2P, but I haven't gotten to a T3 shipyard yet (stubbornly clinging to my altfleet) so I couldn't tell you if reality is in tune with what I think it should be. (Reality is almost as stubborn as I am.)
Reave

Last edited by hrisvalar; 10-25-2012 at 10:25 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 5
10-25-2012, 10:33 AM
At least you feddies have a way to upgrade c-store ships, KDF got nothin, NADA. There is NO T5 ship to qualify for the upgrade discount.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

Contact support @ https://support.perfectworld.com/app/ask
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,748
# 6
10-25-2012, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trenttyler View Post
Not really the case, bare with me.

When the oh so unpopular Cstore was first introduced, we the players were told, "Ever ship in the cstore can be gotten through in game means". ie, grind a specific mark, turn it in, get your Cstore ship WITHOUT spending real money.

This means BOTH ships, whether purchased in the CSTOR or through MARK conversion held the same value, one took TIME, which was considered its own currency, and one took cash, a SUBSTITUTE for time in game.

I would contend that they BOTH were paid for, and neither was FREE. The system was put in place to allow freedom of choice on how you aquired it, so why should one have more value now?
That is a fair point although its hard to retrospectively quantify time spent, although I was thinking of the ones you get at VA, the defiant, galaxy intrepid via the max level token.

when they were first introduced they were available to anyone at max rank even if you got there inside a week.

i had forgotten that some could be obtained by marks/emblems back in the day.

House of Cards - Lvl 46 Fed mission
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 170
# 7
10-25-2012, 02:05 PM
I still think there's no way you can argue that Retrofit Defiant wasn't paid for, but now here's my delimma now ...

I'm thinking of buying a LTS for my brother before the Vets offer expires. With the current rewards program, at 600 day Vet reward (i think) you are given a free VA ship token.

While I dont know this for fact, i'm going to assume Cryptic would see this ship as "free." Never take the $199 into account, bah!

If i'm right, then bro takes his VA ship token and say gets a MVAE. When he wants to upgrade that MVAE to a Fleet variant, it's again another 4 FSM ... right?

Ta'hell with that!

No way in hell anyone can convince me that MVAE wasn't PAID for! So i guess my question to you fine folk is ... "is that MVAE paid for or not?"

If yes ... then to upgrade it should be 1 FSM
If no ... then 4 FSMs

I appreciate your time and thoughts.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 8
10-25-2012, 02:29 PM
There's a fatal flaw in your logic. You're trying to use one currency to buy products that require a different currency, and use a coupon that expired a year ago. Not following my analogy? Let's see if I can explain it to you.



1. Lifetime membership offers several rewards. The page specifically lays these rewards out, and said rewards are the only rewards you get for Lifetime membership. (To see which rewards I'm referring to, see the Lifetime Membership page, Gold Membership side of the features matrix, and Veteran Rewards page).

If you are a lifetime member, you will receive (or have received) all of the rewards referenced on those pages. You will not get any other rewards, and you shouldn't expect more than what they tell you you'll get. That's equivalent to buying a car with standard features, and then getting upset when you don't have <insert extra feature here> that was NOT specifically listed as being on the car.

2. It has been said on numerous occasions (even before the free to play launch) that if you aquire a Cstore ship through any method other than purchasing it via cpoints, that ship is only for that character, and will not count as purchasing the ship.

If you got a free ship with a token (or using emblems / dilithium), and then deleted it, it was gone and you had to buy it with cpoints. That's how it's always been. In that regard, nothing has changed.


3. "Pay to Play" was how Cryptic operated in the past, prior to Perfect World's acquisition. In other words, This game is under new management, and policies have changed.

Imagine, if you will, that this car you bought was purchased from "Bob's Used Car Lot Emporium" back in 2009. When you bought the car, the gave you his business card and told you that everyone in your family would get a 35% discount. That sounds great, right?

Well, last year, Bob was running low on money, and had to sell his car lot to Steve. Steve now owns the place, and sets the rules for the whole place, and even changed the name to "Steve's Used Car Lot Emporium". Today, you go back to the car lot, show Steve the business card. Well guess what? Steve doesn't care about that, because he didn't make you that offer, Bob did. And Bob isn't in charge anymore.

This is the same deal. Dstahl and the other fine people at Cryptic may be the same people working at Cryptic, but PWE is calling the shots now. If policies have changed, then they've changed, and no amount of complaining, protesting, etc. is going to change it.

I still want bare feet.... on ALL costumes.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
# 9 True Vet
10-25-2012, 03:35 PM
Sorry to piggy on your tails my friend but it seems I am not allowed to post for a while since I am "NEW". I have been with STO since day one. I do not post on a regular basis but I do post.

I wanted to gripe like others...I am not into twitter, facebook or any of that other crap; I wish they would just leave things alone.

Taking surveys for zen GREAT and after 10 min Im told I do not qualify WTF!!!

I don't like bullies. (One of the main reasons I left WoW and do not do fleets is because of Veterans making fun of rookies.) I am coming up on 1000 days and there is still ALOT I do not know.

Just make a good game and leave all the crap out of it. We have our forums we kick around we ideas with. We dont need socialistic media involved. We don't need to be baited with free things. Trekkies dont mind earning things if you are honest.

There are so many little things going on here that just peeve me; I can't see straight.

Feel free and post an honest comment to help me vent
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 394
# 10
10-26-2012, 04:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by malnificent View Post
I still think there's no way you can argue that Retrofit Defiant wasn't paid for, but now here's my delimma now ...

I'm thinking of buying a LTS for my brother before the Vets offer expires. With the current rewards program, at 600 day Vet reward (i think) you are given a free VA ship token.

While I dont know this for fact, i'm going to assume Cryptic would see this ship as "free." Never take the $199 into account, bah!

If i'm right, then bro takes his VA ship token and say gets a MVAE. When he wants to upgrade that MVAE to a Fleet variant, it's again another 4 FSM ... right?

Ta'hell with that!

No way in hell anyone can convince me that MVAE wasn't PAID for! So i guess my question to you fine folk is ... "is that MVAE paid for or not?"

If yes ... then to upgrade it should be 1 FSM
If no ... then 4 FSMs

I appreciate your time and thoughts.
The MVAE will require 1 Fleet Module to upgrade to a Fleet variant. The reason for this is because you can't get the MVAE with the VA token you get at 600 days, so it will need to be bought from the store.

The VA token is good for a Defiant-R, and Intrepid-R, or a Galaxy-R. I believe they are the only ones you can get with your token, although I am willing to admit I may be wrong - it has been some time since I last got one, so they may have changed.
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