Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,421
# 31
10-25-2012, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
I've been fuzzy on J'mpok anyway.

He's a warmonger but not a xenophobe. (I do feel like there are hints he's in the pocket of the Orion Syndicate, though and he's having Orions seduce his political rivals and sway them towards his positions.)

He's backed by the remnants of Duras but initiated war on the Romulans.

I'm going to say, too, that if you ignore most of the books and stick to the shows, it sure seems to me like you have Federation-friendly Klingons and Romulan-friendly Klingons and that they're opposed to one another no one should be opposed to both... and the idea that Klingons hate both groups seems to me to be a fan interpretation that's bled over from trying to reconcile Worf's prejudices with other Klingons' prejudices.

But that doing so is almost like saying that some Bargles (made up name) are plaid supremacists and some Bargles are plaid supporters who hate striped people, so Bargles must hate both plaid people and striped people.

I think the sounder interpretation is that you have pro-Romulan Klingons and you have pro-Federation Klingons and that there has always been and remains a rift there. Praxis and the movies overall caused the pro-Federation Klingons to come to power. The Romulans attacked Khitomer in response to that and the pro-Romulan Klingons were stripped of power and/or resorted to deception. With J'mpok, the pro-Romulan Klingons have reclaimed power from the pro-Federation Klingons.

I think a take like this is almost essential to understanding Duras or J'Dan.

And the books have tended to deviate and are just unfortunately being over-relied on as sources by Klingon and Romulan fans because they wouldn't have enough details to form a portrait of Klingon or Romulan culture from otherwise.
Nicely put there mate. Makes somewhat sense.

If that is the story arc, it will depend on how well Cryptic define the internal strife what plays out within the Klingon Empire, and the Romulans.

Even the Federations Section 31 could be featured as trying to subvert the peace process similar to the Leyton Coup.

It would make for some interesting content to be sure.

I'm not entirely against what Cryptic have decided to go with. I'm just a old Star Trekkie, who would like to see the essence of Star Trek maintained.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-25-2012 at 01:44 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 32
10-25-2012, 01:53 PM
Stories. Fine. But what about putting some in game?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,421
# 33
10-25-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
I don't know if we can quantify the "enormous developer resources"... I just think its a decent idea that the poster had... and think that making it specific to theplayers fleet (should they belong to one) is a pretty decent idea. Given the fact that some of the news is already captured... i don't think we are talking about a extraordinarily large amount of time. So yes, I find it desirable. It enhances game play, gives members something to shoot for, etc.

Don't under estimate the "I want my name up in lights" as being a motivator... why else would they post the PVP results... so we can look and be proud of being number 1, killing the most people, staying alive, healing people) etc.

Lets talk about lack of content for a second... can we all, for one moment, agree that no matter how much content is released... there will always be a "lack of content" issue. There is no way Cryptic (alone) can keep up... even with new content every week.

We, as a player base (at least on the forums) are a pretty demanding bunch. If a new mission comes out, it will entertain us for what... a week on the outside before we are bored and demanding more content? Within days of new content being released (hell minutes here on the forums) there will already be ney-sayers, and boo-boo lips, pouting over how they finished the new content, and are already bored.... now what... Heck, I've already had my fill of Into the Hive on Tribble..

There are two ways out of the content issue:

1) Open ended content... which essentially translates to open pvp for territory/holding/asset control that changes with who is logged in.

2) Take advantage of the Foundry... I know its been said many times (with both cheers and jeers)... there are some extremely talented Foundry authors out there that have come up with missions that I think are pretty darn close to being Feature Episode quality... granted no cut scene's etc... There are missiosn that fit all types of game play style (Heavy combat to heavy dialog). Give these people more assets to work with... let them assist with content, while development can then focus on mechanics.
I'm a Software Developer and it is an enormous effort. The Dev, UI customisations, scripting, FAT, DB, etc.

As to your other points I heartedly agree.

I have always hoped that the really good Foundry missions could find their way into a database somewhere, and be tagged for planets and systems. Then when you travel to a planet, you can select the mission, and these are randomly generated from the Foundry.

Open PvP + territory control - Thumbs-up!

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-25-2012 at 02:11 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,474
# 34
10-25-2012, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
Yes, I did read the dev post and thats the part I have a problem with. Romulans are just too xenophobic. They would rather abide a tyrant than accept an olive branch. Those are resisted would have been rounded-up and slaughtered. Some real world examples "Romulan"-inspirations Gene drew from: Caesar. Nero. Napoleon. - these men would abide no equal. They would rather see they empire crumble that share power.

Shinzon's actions against the Romula Senate is keypoint here. The Romulan military exterminated them all because they refused to join forces with him.

Every Star Trek Romulan-archetype created plays out that "fight to the bitter end, no matter the cost."
That was before their planet got vaporized and their Empress abducted.

Remember, D'Tan is a Unificationist. They desire peaceful coexistence, not conquest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twam View Post
And still...

Vaguely, I get a creeping idea in the back of my head, reading that.

How hilarious would it be if they dropped a playable Romulan faction on us, at S7 launch?

Most unlikely, granted, and a great feat of secrecy, but boy, would the playerbase be caught unawares.
I, for one, would be very happy if that happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nadiezja View Post
Cynicism doesn't make you awesome. It just makes you cynical. And hating everything while still hanging out on the forums to complain makes you look a little sociopathic.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,421
# 35
10-25-2012, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
So I suppose that any society which has been characterized by brutal oppressive regimes never changes? Never has any dissensters that fall through the cracks? Never has any opportunists that are willing to change their tune if it gets them out of the fire?

You're being far to narrow in your interpretations of the Romulan peoples and subscribing to the "Molothic Society" view that while prevalent in many Sci-Fi series is subverted as often as it is upheld in Star Trek. And with Romulan society coming apart at the seams as it has been since Shinzon staged his coup - Hobus only exacerbated the problem - you're going to see more of them willing to try new ways of doing things, especially if it means their skin stays intact just one day longer.
The core of the Romulan Star Navy were not on Romulus when the Hobus event occurred.

The vast majority that survived were the diehard whose allegiance to what Romulus stood for were very much alive, much like the Remnant in Star Wars.

No, I do not believe that they would just sue for peace.

The Romulan society was an oppressive regime before the Hobus event. They blamed the Federation for Spock's actions. The Path to 2409 further goes to show that the Federation's allies knew beforehand of the Hobus star ("On Stardate 65776.64, the Federation News Network reports that the Vulcan Science Academy knew of the threat of the Hobus supernova, but refused to assist the Romulans in preventing the destruction of Romulus. The news causes an immediate outcry, with the Vulcans condemned by politicians and analysts and seventeen independent planets, plus the Federation members Pacifica and Zaran II, recalling their ambassadors to Vulcan.").

And after the event the Romulans that remained in power held considerably more power than ever before, as they now faced unarmed refugees as opposed to any organised, armed dissidents.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-25-2012 at 02:31 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 680
# 36
10-25-2012, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
The core of the Romulan Star Navy were not on Romulus when the Hobus event occurred. The vast majority that survived were the diehard whose allegiance to what Romulus stood for were very much alive, much like the Remnant in Star Wars. No, I do not believe that they would just sued for peace. The Romulan society was an oppressive regime before the Hobus event. They blamed the Federation for Spock's actions. And after the event they wielded considerably more power as they now had unarmed refugees as opposed to any organised, and armed dissidents.
And you're completely missing my point and the point made by the Dev Blogs. The people on New Romulus are not representative of the entirety of the Romulan Star Empire. They are a small subset of the people. The Romulan Star Empire and the Romulan Star Navy are currently gearing up to kill the f*** out of each other as the various power blocs try to step into the power vaccuum left by Sela's disappearance.

The people of New Romulus are from the fringes of Romulan society, the people that would in more "stable" times be hunted and persecuted, but currently make up such a small percentage of the population that they are virtually ignored by the Tal'Shiar and other factions because they (or at leas their leadership) proscribe to a peaceful way of doing things and therefore aren't going to be lending their support to any of the other factions or be trying to take power themselves.

This has given them a rare window of opportunity to gtfo and try do their own thing without the interference of the Romulan Star Empire's leadership...for now. The reaching out to the Federation, Klingon Empire, and Reman Resistance/Rebellion is as much motivated by a pragmatic desire to have somebody with a big stick in their corner when the Romulan civil war is over with and the winners come looking for the "renegades."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,421
# 37
10-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by canis36 View Post
And you're completely missing my point and the point made by the Dev Blogs. The people on New Romulus are not representative of the entirety of the Romulan Star Empire. They are a small subset of the people. The Romulan Star Empire and the Romulan Star Navy are currently gearing up to kill the f*** out of each other as the various power blocs try to step into the power vaccuum left by Sela's disappearance.

The people of New Romulus are from the fringes of Romulan society, the people that would in more "stable" times be hunted and persecuted, but currently make up such a small percentage of the population that they are virtually ignored by the Tal'Shiar and other factions because they (or at leas their leadership) proscribe to a peaceful way of doing things and therefore aren't going to be lending their support to any of the other factions or be trying to take power themselves.

This has given them a rare window of opportunity to gtfo and try do their own thing without the interference of the Romulan Star Empire's leadership...for now. The reaching out to the Federation, Klingon Empire, and Reman Resistance/Rebellion is as much motivated by a pragmatic desire to have somebody with a big stick in their corner when the Romulan civil war is over with and the winners come looking for the "renegades."
Sure. Its great. But, I suspect this IS the new Romulan faction. That is my point. The really Romulan faction, is a backdrop to this one, just like the ship that got magically dragged off by the Iconians never to be heard from again...

Also,

"D'Tan, for his part, is calling for a complete reorganization of Romulan society."

"My people must reject their past. Secrecy and deceit can no longer be a way of life for us
."

"The plan for a new Romulan homeworld targets several uninhabited planets in Tau Dewa space."

Now does that really convince you that they are a small subset of the people. Small subsets of people don't just wander off into the wilderness to build a new homeworld.

And in terms of STO, and the new sector, are there going to be any other Romulans?

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 10-25-2012 at 03:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,629
# 38
10-25-2012, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
The vast majority that survived were the diehard whose allegiance to what Romulus stood for were very much alive, much like the Remnant in Star Wars.
Stop being absurd.

Star Wars had a LOT of Imperial defectors and you want me to bring up Pellaeon?

You are reducing the Romulans to a caricature, one that even CONTRADICTS the very first time we seen Romulans in "Balance of Terror" or you people are so strung up on having a walking stereotype that cannot accept either change or depth.

Maybe Klingons are nothing but animals that ravel in combat ... sure animals dont build starships but hell, if we are going to reduce Romulans to a caricature we should o the same to Klingons, A STUPID WARLIKE RACE that despite their claims of honor are in fact a BUNCH OF COWARDS THAT ATTACK UNDER CLOAK.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 331
# 39
10-25-2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Now does that really convince you that they are a small subset of the people. Small subsets of people don't just wander off into the wilderness to build a new homeworld.
not to nitpick but considering the entire history of the united states is essentially a result of a few small subsets of people wandering off to build a new country. its the same idea. certainly it could happen
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 40
10-25-2012, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
See... This strikes me as the sort of thinking that creeps in from reading the books.

Going by the shows, the Romulans were and remained allies with a lot of powerful Klingons. It was people like Worf, Martok, and Gowron who were anti-Romulan.

But I don't think you can take them as wholly representative any more than you can take J'Dan and Duras as wholly representative.

I don't know anyone but the Duras who were pro-Romulan going from the TV shows. The STO backstory, Path to 2409 shows the klingons at war with the Romulans. Here are a few points from the STO lore (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...&postcount=119).

S7 story does not make sense for the KDF. I can't even see the Chewbacca defense working on this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE)
------------------------------------
Path to 2409: Martok made the definitive statement of the Klingon Empire's view of the Romulan Star Empire in 2388. "
The Klingons will offer no treaty, no aid, and no hand that is not holding a blade"
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