Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 11
10-27-2012, 02:44 PM
All right; I was just concerned that a five-second limit would force a panicked scramble to click on the desired power out of fear of time running out before you could even trigger your first power--which is something of a problem because there is still a persistent bug in the UI where players often have to click on a power icon multiple times before it actually activates.

Given the setup, it would probably be better for players to assign the power-boost (and the powers that they want to activate with it) to hotkeys. Does anybody here have a link to a good set of instructions on the scripting language for that?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 12
10-27-2012, 02:59 PM
I personally like it. It's just boost for one skill basically when you need it, so it counts. Would be lovely with old PSW, but even now I can already see the potential with some skills.

I think 5s is more than enough, if it would be 10s, that would be overkill for flow capacitor skills. They improve so many things, that it would certainly create some disgusting combos.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 730
# 13
10-27-2012, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The T5 Romulan Rep ability is intended to be an "On Next Power" boost. Basically, you activate it, and your next ability that relies upon Science skills is vastly more effective.

We did not have an immediate solution to making a power that could remain on the player until their next power was activated, and then consume it. So the 5-second timer is by design to allow 1 or 2 power activation that are capable of benefiting from the boost.

It's not intended to turn you into Mr. Super Science for any duration. We can re-examine that if necessary, but I wanted to let everyone in on the actual design intent behind the ability first.

If this design intent means that we have to increase the bonus that this power grants, we'd love to hear suggestions as to how high it would need to be for it to be considered effective and desirable, without turning it into a 10-min Cooldown "I Win" button.

I'd like to reinforce the fact that this boost adds +100 to ALL Science Skills. This includes the skills that will increase effectiveness of Shield Heals, Current Shield HPs, Damage, Control and Energy/Shield Drains... but it also grants a massive boost to the RESIST skills that can help players escape or shrug off incoming control effects.
Nice on paper, but I can see that Aux boost being exploited very easily for anyone using Aux to Batteries. With that much Aux Power, it'd be a veritable EPS Power Transfer, especially in the apocalyptic scenario of someone carrying Aux to Bat III. Add that to a stacking Technician DOff build, and Aux to Bat becomes a must-have.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 14
10-27-2012, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The T5 Romulan Rep ability is intended to be an "On Next Power" boost. Basically, you activate it, and your next ability that relies upon Science skills is vastly more effective.

We did not have an immediate solution to making a power that could remain on the player until their next power was activated, and then consume it. So the 5-second timer is by design to allow 1 or 2 power activation that are capable of benefiting from the boost.

It's not intended to turn you into Mr. Super Science for any duration. We can re-examine that if necessary, but I wanted to let everyone in on the actual design intent behind the ability first.

If this design intent means that we have to increase the bonus that this power grants, we'd love to hear suggestions as to how high it would need to be for it to be considered effective and desirable, without turning it into a 10-min Cooldown "I Win" button.

I'd like to reinforce the fact that this boost adds +100 to ALL Science Skills. This includes the skills that will increase effectiveness of Shield Heals, Current Shield HPs, Damage, Control and Energy/Shield Drains... but it also grants a massive boost to the RESIST skills that can help players escape or shrug off incoming control effects.
im looking forward to how strong i can get a tac buffed EWP3 with this!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 455
# 15
10-27-2012, 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchibiclari View Post
All right; I was just concerned that a five-second limit would force a panicked scramble to click on the desired power out of fear of time running out before you could even trigger your first power--which is something of a problem because there is still a persistent bug in the UI where players often have to click on a power icon multiple times before it actually activates.

Given the setup, it would probably be better for players to assign the power-boost (and the powers that they want to activate with it) to hotkeys. Does anybody here have a link to a good set of instructions on the scripting language for that?
Yeah the UI lag is awful... Sometimes clicking a power is not even registered or I have to spam click powers to get them to activate.... or sometimes I click them and they dim and then activate seconds later. This power has the potential to be useless just like ramming speed and abandon ship if something is not done. In certain situations where the UI lags we will probably not have any hope of firing the the sci ability off before the 5 seconds.

I also don't have a crap computer either... quad core phenom II, Nvidia 560Ti 2GB card that only uses 600MB of video ram for this game and 8GB of ram with a velociraptor + ssd on a hybrid card that leverages them both as the SSD is in cache mode. Internet is 15MB down and 1MB up and I rarely have ping or speed issues.

Just to further my point a little more... I usually run 45 to 50fps... when I open the doff window and go to the roster of 400 doffs... it drops to 6fps. The UI needs a serious speed overhaul. It's a weird phenomenon as MSI afterburner shos that GPU usage drops from 40% to 50% to single digits and task manger shows CPU usage drops from around 50% to 30%... whats going on with the UI!!?!?!
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Last edited by phantomeight; 10-27-2012 at 04:43 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,496
# 16
10-27-2012, 04:45 PM
with UI lag, Power Missfires, and a comparable high ping from the EU i really dislike these 5 second buffs (and that is gamewide!)

i'd rather have a buff that is half as effective but lasts 5 seconds longer.

not to mention that people might like to STACK multiple buffs before firing an ability (or heck before DECLOAKING!), if 2 of those are 5 second buffs there is a big chance that the first buff expires before the first non-buff ability is even fired.


and yes i'd like to have a 2nd choice as well, maybe something passive instead (i really have enough hotkeys on my UI as it is).
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 20
# 17
10-27-2012, 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
.... We did not have an immediate solution to making a power that could remain on the player until their next power was activated, and then consume it....
I find that just a little odd since this game is built on the same engine that Champions Online was built on and last I heard you guys work in the same building or close enough. Champions Online has had On Next Hit abilities since launch so while that portion of the code may have been overlooked when making STO, the capability is definitely in the engine and worst case scenario you shout across the hall to a CO dev and ask about it. Granted it may take a bit to get it properly implemented in STO, hell they're still tweaking it in CO but its there.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 18
10-27-2012, 06:21 PM
The present setup of STO allows "on next hit" buffs but ONLY when combined with a finite-length countdown timer (e.g. the 30 seconds that you are allowed to fire a torpedo with the High Yield or Spread abilities). AFAIK the devs have not implemented anything that allows you to trigger the "on next hit" power with no time limit.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 19
10-27-2012, 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We did not have an immediate solution to making a power that could remain on the player until their next power was activated, and then consume it. So the 5-second timer is by design to allow 1 or 2 power activation that are capable of benefiting from the boost.
Hi Bort, thanks for the info.

I think it will be 2 powers on a good day, and 1 power on bad ones - this will generally be dictated by lag.

Unfortunately right now, even space is plagued by pretty severe powers activation lag - my client, or FPS do not actually lag but pretty much myself and everyone I know experience this issue where you can click an ability for it to simply not fire off.

That's not really related to the design of this power, but I think it will affect it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I'd like to reinforce the fact that this boost adds +100 to ALL Science Skills. This includes the skills that will increase effectiveness of Shield Heals, Current Shield HPs, Damage, Control and Energy/Shield Drains... but it also grants a massive boost to the RESIST skills that can help players escape or shrug off incoming control effects.
I appreciate the idea behind that, but here are a few comments:

1) There are still some builds (primarily sci ships) that will gain a very useful tool with this power vs. others (like escorts) that will be gaining very little.

2) Since there is no information in the UI available, or anywhere else, it's really hard as a player to know what +100 to Power Insulators is actually going to do.

If I have 9 ranks in PI (so 99) and therefore 50% resistance - what exactly does adding +100 do to the resistance number?

What happens to skills from even 0 to 99 is not listed anywhere in game, much less how skills function when taken beyond 99.


3) I'm still not convinced that Inertial Dampers even does enough to justify adding skill ranks to - but even if it is this ability seems like it could be doing more than just breaking a tractor beam. (I'm just looking at the idea of this T5 power boosting resistances as you mentioned).




Ultimately my reason for creating this thread is not that this power, in and of itself, is a bad idea - I just think it will have a greater impact on some ships/captains and much lesser impact on others.

That's normally fine, but in this instance this is the only available T5 Romulan Rep system selectable power.


I feel if you have completed T5 of the rep system, and get your final ability that it should be something of decent impact. As a Sci captain in a Sci ship, I think this power would be exactly that.

For a Cruiser or Escort, not so much.



Realistically in this game's system a 10 minute cooldown is basically an eternity in any single PvE instance and being somewhat more resistant to some effects for 5s is really marginal at best.



Would it be out of the scope of what you intended for the Rep system to include a second power choice at T5, as is the case with all of the other tiers?

Last edited by ussultimatum; 10-27-2012 at 07:28 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 510
# 20
10-27-2012, 06:56 PM
Okay nice to hear the reasoning. But i see a few issues with it.

1. Many skills won't see a huge benefit from this skill in reality as they scale poorly with skill points, or are already so weak that a littlie less weak once every 10 minutes is still weak.

2. Even if it raised every skill to OMG SO POWERFUL levels AFAIK any buffs like this, if they wear off whilst an over time effect is running, the relevant effect losses the boost. This means that Tykens, GW, TBR, TB, TSS, Energy Siphon, Tachyon Beam, Feedback Pulse, and probably a few others I?ve forgotten won't get a lot out of it.

3. Even assuming it provided a straight +100% boost, any given single skill represents such a small % of our total contribution, and any given skill will be used so many times in a 10 minute period that the contribution will be near meaningless. To put it into perspective. On a basic VA ship of mine the borg console pushes average crit magnitude to 60%, assuming no +CrTD on the weapons a 3% crit chance bonus is the same as +2.4% DPS. Now true CC is a big part of a Sci's arsenal in PVE so that?s not a totally pure picture. But then again our CC won?t benefit much from this anyway, they already do their jobs well and most peoples GW is already close enough to the Graviton Generator skill cap to make this near meaningless anyway.


Let me give you an example of a good one. My PDP console on my Tac. By commanding it with my buff's, (and given it's D this is easy), i can shove the damage up to 1700 a shot, and between it's innate bonus and my own bonus and low pVE defenses I can pretty much grantee it won't miss. On top of that it?s running an 8.4% crit chance and >100% crit magnitude, backed by APB and in single target burns FoMM. Realistically 70K total per activation on a 4 minute CD is conservative. To do something comparable, (averaged over the ability cycle), with a 5 second Tactical buff on a 10 minute CD, (bearing in mind an escort is likely to normally be bursting 10K tops for most people, (12K is the highest I?ve heard of)), and considering total +damage % is probably over the 500% mark, you'd need on the order of a +1200% modifier. Does that put the concept into perspective for you.

Now granted this is an innate ability, doesn?t necessarily focus on pure damage and doesn?t take up a console slot. But still it needs to be a heavy duty ability to be worth it on a 10 minute CD. I think to leave it at 10 Minutes is just not going to be workable if you want a genuinely powerful ability that?s going to compare with even the lower tier abilities.

IMHO what I?d do:

1. Change it to affect the next science ability used in the next 30 seconds.

2. Make it eliminate the CD of that ability and reduce the Global CD on that and any attached abilities to 5 seconds.

3. Drop the Ability CD of the buff to around 3-4 minutes.


This way it's an effective free +100% buff to whatever skill you use regardless of ability or base skill point levels, (or in some cases allows for otherwise impossible skill combo's like Grave Well and Tykens, or TSS and FBP). This means it's an equal buff for everyone. At the same time it's no longer such a long CD buff that you need a truly ungodly, (read near "I WIN" level), buff to make it seem worth it.

It wouldn?t fix it for everything, TBR still won?t get a huge buff and Jam, Scramble, and Mask are in the same boat too. But it would go a LONG way towards helping make this what you want it to be, a significant single power buff.
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