Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
So it seems we the community and the development staff are at an impasse as to whether Dilithium is truly a time-based currency. The development staff contends that is what the currency was intended to do and DStahl provides their interpretation HERE. Long ago with the introduction of the currency it was stated that the desire was that a leveling player would have ample amounts of dilithium accrued by the time they reached max level (this was the justification for the high costs of ships). However, the intention of the currency does not equate to how it is actually functioning. On a fundamental level, dilithium is acting as a time-gated content-specific reward currency. Dilithium is not a time-based currency because there are a multitude of actions in game where time is spent that dilithium is not rewarded for. With the rising competition for dilithium in end-game system purchases, a hard cap on the refinement rate, and potential misbalancing to RWDs, rectifying the problem will be tricky and the currency system will require an overhaul. What I propose here is a pass on the system that will potentially remove damage to zen transactions. Please note any numbers in this proposal are merely placeholders to show the logic. Data mining from the game is required to generate the actual numbers.

Step 1 - Remove unrefined dilithium from the game and the dilithium refining limit.
Unrefined Dilithium Ore is a non-essential pass-through currency. Yes, this will be unpopular and people will scream because of the potential to flood the market with dilithium and buy tons of zen or vice-a-versa but subsequent steps below will provide the proper measures to eliminate that possibility by shifting the caps.

Step 2 - Standardize the dilithium gain per unit time.
This is something that has not been done and will be required for Steps 3 and 4. For this, the developers need to look at the missions that give out dilithium, their reward, and come up with an estimate of dilithium/hour. Then this estimate will be used further in awarding a base amount of dilithium to content and the passive system. Let's take a simple daily for example that rewards 480 dilithium and use that as the baseline. Let's say that daily is expected to take 15 minutes to complete so our dilithium per hour for that mission is 480*4 = 1920. Follow these steps with all dilithium rewarding missions and take the average.

Step 3 - Reward a passive rate of dilithium gain in game.
For simplicity's sake, I have chosen this logic - the passive gain should be at 10-20% of what would be rewarded for that content (i.e. the dilithium/hour rate). It needs to be small so AFK farming does not result in the main method of dilithium acquisition, however, with the logout-timer set to an hour this will have minimal impact. So, every 10 minutes active players in the game will get a ?Refined Dilithium? tick of 192 - 384 dilithium (or whatever the average rate is).

Step 4 - Provide an additional reward for ALL mission content or events.
Just like what currently happens, but the bonus is assessed based on challenge level. The main story missions may only give say a bonus of 200 + that gained from the passive system, Elite STFs will give more, etc... All Exploration, Patrol, etc... missions will get a base level. Events can be timed to award additional bonuses (i.e. bonus passive dilithium gain etc...). If it is truly intended to be a time-based currency, it needs to be rewarded for everything. For missions, the rate of gain is already limited by cooldows and this allows the developer's to highlight certain content as stated HERE.

Step 5 - Ensure that it will not imbalance the Dilithium Exchange.
Here is where the cap should have been in the first place. A hard cap on the amount of zen that can be purchased per day per account needs to be established (say 400-500). The amount of dilithium that can be purchased with zen does not need to be capped. This ensures the people that don't have money have an ingame method to obtain items from the C-Store can occur at a reasonable rate and the people who want to invest money instead of time can still do so as stated HERE. This is done even though it has been stated the exchange counts for a small part of the business HERE.

Step 6 - Make dilithium an account-based currency
This just makes too much sense and eliminates the silliness of Dilithium transferring using the exchange.

Step 7 - Closely monitor dilithium costs for items and inputs for the new systems.
Monitor, monitor, and adjust when necessary as is stated is being done HERE.

Last edited by commodoreshrvk; 10-25-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 150
# 2
10-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Won't quote everything, but only:

Quote:
Originally Posted by commodoreshrvk View Post
Step 5 - Ensure that it will not imbalance the Dilithium Exchange.
Here is where the cap should have been in the first place. A hard cap on the amount of zen that can be purchased per day per account needs to be established (say 400-500).
This!

Lower the number (400 is simply too much) and you get my vote. I adore the words "per account". Some will ask for "per toon", but that'd be rediculous.

The rest points need no changes.
Great presentation and definetly an improvement over the current silly and pretty confusing system.

Last edited by joxertm2; 10-25-2012 at 12:26 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 766
# 3
10-25-2012, 12:29 PM
Regarding the passive rate thing, I agree with the 10% - 15% of active earning, but believe that passive yield should cap at 320 without undertaking active content that would yield more than that. So if I log in and sit for 8 hours, making sure that I move the character once per hour to avoid the logout timer, doing nothing, I might get 320 for my "trouble". But beyond that, if i want more, I should have to play for it.

Otherwise, you can have the market flooded with Dilithium from groups who sit and take an unlimited of passive dilithium, circumventing the logout timer, hoard it up for a month and then sell it all on the Dilithium exchange.

The cap on dilithium refinement is a solid control to determine how much usable dialithium actually enters the game. this allows them to set prices on things based on how much time they think it should take to achieve them.

For example, if they feel that it should take 30 days for a 10-man fleet to unlock a tier associated with a starbase or other fleet holding, and there is a cap of 8000 per day, they can set the Dilithium cost to 1,800,000 and it would be fair. 10 people hitting refinement cap every day for 30 days would yield 2,400,000 RD... a surplus of 600,000. Larger fleets would achieve it quicker. Smaller fleets would achieve it slower.

As long as there is enough content that can yield more than 8000 Dilithium Ore per day it remains fair.

I would say be even more lenient and set the prices to a fleet size of 5 players, since 5 is the standard grouping size in the game while still allowing the minimum fleet size to be 2 players. At least in lower tiers.

It wouldn't be so bad if the numbers actually balance out...
I am of the opinion that Cryptic cannot because PWE will not...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,247
# 4
10-25-2012, 12:53 PM
Not sure I like the "time based" currency idea.. especially in regards to missions. If I am undertanding you correctly, you are awarded an amount of dilithium based on how long you were in a given mission. Too easy to just start a mission, set a macro that just keeps you from being logged off (60 minutes right now anyway)...

Although, if you meant that if the average to get 480 Dil=15 Minutes, then a mission expected to last 30 Minutes should be valued at 960 Dilithium... i could get behind that... perhaps a bonus modifier for completing early? (Note: This is NOT an optional timer... just say ISE complete in 15 Minutes = 480 Dil, complete in 10 (2/3 time) = 640 Dilithium (480 base + 160 (the value of 5 minutes in dilithium)). There should be a nod to skill.

As to a passive Dilithium gain... not a fan (I gain dilithium by being logged in and doing nothing (exploitable)... so I need 15,000 dilithium, just stay logged in for 10 hours and prevent log outs (can be done with a keyboard macro) I'd gain that amount while at work, and sleeping... )... Alternative, perhaps have an method of gaining passive dilithium as you suggest, a holding of a dilithium mine or some sort... that must be defended (actively (thiking PVP/PVE mix here -- BSGO as an example))? As long as you hold the mine... you get the dilithium. Mine goes bye bye... you stop earning. Since we are at war, it makes sense that our enemies would want to limit our resource collection... seems like a solid idea (open PVP really is needed in this game).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Rihannsu
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 334
# 5
10-25-2012, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
Step 1 - Remove unrefined dilithium from the game and the dilithium refining limit.
Unrefined Dilithium Ore is a non-essential pass-through currency. Yes, this will be unpopular and people will scream because of the potential to flood the market with dilithium and buy tons of zen or vice-a-versa but subsequent steps below will provide the proper measures to eliminate that possibility by shifting the caps.
Why unpopular? Removing cap will increase quantity of dilith on market, therefore it will drop dilith price so zen won't be worthless.
Good model. But as I stated in other thread, I think that zen price crash (in S6 zen costs half of the price that was before) is good for pwe business. As this hard cap and changes of S7 are making dilith rare (Starbases, Omega reputation system) and forces players to buy zen in order to obtain more of dilith.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 476
# 6
10-25-2012, 01:39 PM
I can support adding dilithium to other missions (perhaps for mission replay), but passive dilithium gain is kind of silly. Of course there will be AFK issues. And do you really expect to be gaining Dilithium while doing nothing but chatting? There's already the Duty Officer system for that.

Basically, I think that dilithium should reward a broad range of 'time investments' in gameplay, but I don't think people should earn it for sitting still. That's just inviting abuse, even if there are some sort of caps. We want people to play the game, not just sit there. They're free to socialize and stuff (it is an MMO after all), but rewards should come from gameplay, not just being logged in.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 7
10-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny111971 View Post
Not sure I like the "time based" currency idea.. especially in regards to missions. If I am undertanding you correctly, you are awarded an amount of dilithium based on how long you were in a given mission. Too easy to just start a mission, set a macro that just keeps you from being logged off (60 minutes right now anyway)...
Nope, for a specific mission you are rewarded the extra dilithium by how long it "should" take you. So if the devs create a mission that should take 15 minutes it awards that amount of dilithium. You can sit in the mission all you want, the only dilithium you are going to get is 15 minutes worth for the mission and the low passive rate.

Quote:
Although, if you meant that if the average to get 480 Dil=15 Minutes, then a mission expected to last 30 Minutes should be valued at 960 Dilithium... i could get behind that... perhaps a bonus modifier for completing early? (Note: This is NOT an optional timer... just say ISE complete in 15 Minutes = 480 Dil, complete in 10 (2/3 time) = 640 Dilithium (480 base + 160 (the value of 5 minutes in dilithium)). There should be a nod to skill.
This is exactly what is meant.

Quote:
As to a passive Dilithium gain... not a fan (I gain dilithium by being logged in and doing nothing (exploitable)... so I need 15,000 dilithium, just stay logged in for 10 hours and prevent log outs (can be done with a keyboard macro) I'd gain that amount while at work, and sleeping... )... Alternative, perhaps have an method of gaining passive dilithium as you suggest, a holding of a dilithium mine or some sort... that must be defended (actively (thiking PVP/PVE mix here -- BSGO as an example))? As long as you hold the mine... you get the dilithium. Mine goes bye bye... you stop earning. Since we are at war, it makes sense that our enemies would want to limit our resource collection... seems like a solid idea (open PVP really is needed in this game).
Agreed, that is why I set the bar low for a passive gain. Additionally, you could have a "trigger" for passive gain. Doing some content "triggers" the ticks to start. Think of it like a passive buff then with a countdown timer. Do some content, you get a 30 min timer that counts down to zero. Continuing to missions just keeps resetting the countdown timer.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 8
10-25-2012, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joxertm2 View Post
Won't quote everything, but only:



This!

Lower the number (400 is simply too much) and you get my vote. I adore the words "per account". Some will ask for "per toon", but that'd be rediculous.

The rest points need no changes.
Great presentation and definetly an improvement over the current silly and pretty confusing system.
Like I said above, the numbers are just up there to show the logic behind the concept. I can earn between 170-220 Zen a day so perhaps 200 then.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 9
10-25-2012, 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by taut0u View Post
Why unpopular? Removing cap will increase quantity of dilith on market, therefore it will drop dilith price so zen won't be worthless.
Good model. But as I stated in other thread, I think that zen price crash (in S6 zen costs half of the price that was before) is good for pwe business. As this hard cap and changes of S7 are making dilith rare (Starbases, Omega reputation system) and forces players to buy zen in order to obtain more of dilith.
I am sure it will not be unpopular to players, but the devs and on up might cringe. As for the price of Zen, both ends of the spectrum (high and low conversion rates) are good for business. The system is cleverly buffered at both ends, but seems to be better at the lower end.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 10
10-25-2012, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denizenvi View Post
I can support adding dilithium to other missions (perhaps for mission replay), but passive dilithium gain is kind of silly. Of course there will be AFK issues. And do you really expect to be gaining Dilithium while doing nothing but chatting? There's already the Duty Officer system for that.

Basically, I think that dilithium should reward a broad range of 'time investments' in gameplay, but I don't think people should earn it for sitting still. That's just inviting abuse, even if there are some sort of caps. We want people to play the game, not just sit there. They're free to socialize and stuff (it is an MMO after all), but rewards should come from gameplay, not just being logged in.
If dilithium is truely meant to be a time-based currency, then peoples activities such as socializing, role-playing, testing builds, etc... can only be accounted for by some passiveness in the system. Like I said above, if the logout timer is not enough, if the low rate is not enough, you could put in a "count-down" timer.
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