Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 51
10-28-2012, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by emoejoe View Post
this game sucks becus everyone just copies hilberts build thread and gets exactly the same stuff he tells you to

unfollowable rant off


Our master plan is coming into frutition. Soon we will have all mindless TSI-ship build borgs doing as we want!! Ops... did i say that loud?
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 52
10-28-2012, 07:33 PM
PVP may suffer in S7. But it'll only die with the release of the Multi Mission Science Vessel - Vesta. I quote myself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khayuung
The upcoming Vesta, is effectively a Flight Deck Cruiser with a Karfi boff layout, Sensor Analysis, SUBSYSTEM TARGETING, the turn rate of a Neg'vhar, and can load dual cannons. We know this given the information coming out of Tribble.

1 fed ship. Carrying more stats than I cannot believe.

A PROTOTYPE SHIP more awesome than the FLAGSHIP Enterprise.

Its Star Trek the Anime, folks.

And for the first time in my entire Starfleet career, I am apologizing to KDF. I'm truly sorry for your loss. My condolences be to PVP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,451
# 53
10-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
PVP may suffer in S7. But it'll only die with the release of the Multi Mission Science Vessel - Vesta. I quote myself:
I asked for the Bonaventure back in Feb or Mar... I was laughed at.

ST:TAS would be fun. Ahem...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,624
# 54
10-28-2012, 08:02 PM
are people closed beta testing the vesta yet? i think all we know for certain from tribble is that carrier pets are used on it, which means its a damn carrier, and DC/DHCs work on it

which is bad enough as it is, but to make it a karfi clone? with what, 2 hangers? insane, just insane. i can only hope it only has 1, because its a sci ships thats sure to have subsystem targeting and sensor analysis.

so, a ship that can truly do all 3. spike damage you hard, chain tractor you with pets, hit you with commander level sci abilities, have target subsystem innately, and after getting completely manhandled by this ship for about a minute, it will have fully stacked sensor analysis on you.


and no one from here was selected to test it. pvp'ers, that could test just how fundamentally this would actually effect things, as apposed to pve'ers who would just say COOL! i don't need to see the final stats, theres enough information to know this thing is going to be broken overpowered, the latest ball shot to pvp.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 55
10-28-2012, 08:14 PM
Just want to second that no one with any knowledge of the game's mechanics has yet been known to test this ship. As far as we know, Cryptic extended the closed beta exclusively to people who don't have the first clue about the way it'd affect PvP. It's particularly a downer because not only are the few leaked details we know about bad signs in and of themselves, but we still have no idea how three toy consoles (innates?) will behave.

Bear in mind that this ship is the first ever where even Cryptic was worried it'd be too strong. A science cruiser with SA, pet deployables and easy-to-use dual heavies? I'm not saying the sky is falling but it doesn't look good at all.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,451
# 56
10-28-2012, 08:22 PM
Not sure I've linked this since March: http://mark-rademaker.blogspot.com/2...e-updates.html

It has a PDF for the Vesta.

That blog post is from Oct of last year.

Like I said, before the Atrox and Armitage... folks were talking about the Fed tactical carrier - the Vesta.

When I came back, I was really surprised to see the Armitage given all the discussion that had taken place about the Vesta. I thought for a moment they had just decided to go with the Armitage instead of the Vesta given they did the Caitian litterbox...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,743
# 57
10-28-2012, 08:29 PM
Fear the day you walk into a PvP match to see your team getting whaled on by Vestas and Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofits/Fleet Patrol Escorts/Fleet HECs. Those three escorts can already tank and kill. Now we'll have a monstrosity from the depths of Gre'thor that can tank, kill, and eat you away with those science abilities (if you're not dead by the time sensor analysis has done its work).

If the fleet escorts were a gunshot wound to the side of PvP, the Vesta as it stands is knife to spinal cord.

Cryptic, for the love of keeping some semblence of balance, let the hardcore PvPers you know exist on the forums test out the Vesta. Anyone can make a mess of enemies in PvE. The average Joe(s) testing this thing probably don't know that the 'It's amazing!' feedback their giving to the devs is sinking the knife deeper and twisting it.

With the addition of this ship, the segregation of those willing to spend money and those who don't will be complete.

PvP is dying a slow, painful death. And it will be dead soon if something isn't done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
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Check out my STO Youtube channel!
Why are you hovering over my signature? Play my foundry missions! :-)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 58
10-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
are people closed beta testing the vesta yet? i think all we know for certain from tribble is that carrier pets are used on it, which means its a damn carrier, and DC/DHCs work on it

which is bad enough as it is, but to make it a karfi clone? with what, 2 hangers? insane, just insane. i can only hope it only has 1, because its a sci ships thats sure to have subsystem targeting and sensor analysis.

so, a ship that can truly do all 3. spike damage you hard, chain tractor you with pets, hit you with commander level sci abilities, have target subsystem innately, and after getting completely manhandled by this ship for about a minute, it will have fully stacked sensor analysis on you.

and no one from here was selected to test it. pvp'ers, that could test just how fundamentally this would actually effect things, as apposed to pve'ers who would just say COOL! i don't need to see the final stats, theres enough information to know this thing is going to be broken overpowered, the latest ball shot to pvp.
Its just got the Karfi boff layout, it only has 1 flight deck. (I hope.)

The rest is as you've noticed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
Just want to second that no one with any knowledge of the game's mechanics has yet been known to test this ship. As far as we know, Cryptic extended the closed beta exclusively to people who don't have the first clue about the way it'd affect PvP. It's particularly a downer because not only are the few leaked details we know about bad signs in and of themselves, but we still have no idea how three toy consoles (innates?) will behave.

Bear in mind that this ship is the first ever where even Cryptic was worried it'd be too strong. A science cruiser with SA, pet deployables and easy-to-use dual heavies? I'm not saying the sky is falling but it doesn't look good at all.
At the very least, this time they are rightfully worried.

Btw, DHCs on a 8-9 degree turn is "easy to use"...? Can I have your haxx skills? I can't keep my Negvhar pointed in the right direction long enough, even with power sliding and reverse drive!

The thing about escorts and cruisers with flight decks is that its a naturally self-balancing system. Choosing weapons means fighters are launched slower, and if the ship has too many sci slots those suffer too. Choosing aux gimps your firepower. Choosing both wrecks your suvivability.

Give it turn rate 6, 6 weapon slots, 9 consoles and 1 flight deck. Its the only thing that would make it balanced, really.

(It would also make it Dreadnought useless...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Not sure I've linked this since March: http://mark-rademaker.blogspot.com/2...e-updates.html

It has a PDF for the Vesta.

That blog post is from Oct of last year.

Like I said, before the Atrox and Armitage... folks were talking about the Fed tactical carrier - the Vesta.

When I came back, I was really surprised to see the Armitage given all the discussion that had taken place about the Vesta. I thought for a moment they had just decided to go with the Armitage instead of the Vesta given they did the Caitian litterbox...
HEC was a good idea. Ingenius in fact.

But after the Kitty Hawk and the HEC, I wish they knew when to stop! Making ships isn't like making out, you know!! :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Fear the day you walk into a PvP match to see your team getting whaled on by Vestas and Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofits/Fleet Patrol Escorts/Fleet HECs. Those three escorts can already tank and kill. Now we'll have a monstrosity from the depths of Gre'thor that can tank, kill, and eat you away with those science abilities (if you're not dead by the time sensor analysis has done its work).

If the fleet escorts were a gunshot wound to the side of PvP, the Vesta as it stands is knife to spinal cord.

Cryptic, for the love of keeping some semblence of balance, let the hardcore PvPers you know exist on the forums test out the Vesta. Anyone can make a mess of enemies in PvE. The average Joe(s) testing this thing probably don't know that the 'It's amazing!' feedback their giving to the devs is sinking the knife deeper and twisting it.

With the addition of this ship, the segregation of those willing to spend money and those who don't will be complete.

PvP is dying a slow, painful death. And it will be dead soon if something isn't done.
And then...

Feds get Siphon Drones in the Romulan Lockbox.

Mines get improved to be more effective and torp skills affect them.

Spam Trek Online.

RIP, PVP. I hardly ever knew ya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 59
10-28-2012, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
Btw, DHCs on a 8-9 degree turn is "easy to use"...? Can I have your haxx skills? I can't keep my Negvhar pointed in the right direction long enough, even with power sliding and reverse drive!

The thing about escorts and cruisers with flight decks is that its a naturally self-balancing system. Choosing weapons means fighters are launched slower, and if the ship has too many sci slots those suffer too. Choosing aux gimps your firepower. Choosing both wrecks your suvivability.
My apologies, I should give a little explanation + history of the Vesta here. Up until the release of the Kittybox, sci ships were relatively maneuverable, the only real exception being the Nebbie since it was more of a sci/cruiser hybrid.

Ships like the C-store Intrepid have a turn basically on par with KDF battlecruisers (in fact many are slightly superior; even the Fleet Vor'cha only sports 10, next to the Intrepid's 12 and the C-store Recon's 13). In theory, there's nothing stopping sci ships from mounting DHCs and going to town... except they're barred from doing so.

Now the introduction of Fedside "science carriers" threw a wrench into this, because ships like the Catbox turn like an absolute pig and if the Vesta is the same we can all stop freaking right now. The thing is, though, the "hangar" part is complete news to us, and what isn't news is that the Vesta's been billed as and promised to be a science ship that can mount cannons. This was implicitly under the old assumption that science ships are quite capable of turning well enough to use them.

Have you seen the Wells in PvP lately? Give that dual heavies, some pets and a few more toy consoles for good measure and you can start to see the problem.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 95
# 60
10-28-2012, 10:36 PM
Hey get back on topic this is a rant
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