Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1
# 701
05-02-2013, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maakur View Post
I've been thinking about this for a while now:

Since escorts are so flavor-of-the-month(s) right now, and especially for people who can't always have an organized PvP team but are occasionally thrown into PUGs - or even choose to play random - what would be the optimal build for taking down escorts?

Goals:
  1. negate the escort's biggest advantage - its speed and turning (which also provide much of its defense/survivability)
  2. capitalize on the escort's biggest weakness - its squishiness
  3. be able to withstand high alpha strikes

Regarding #1, the best strategy I've come up with is a variety of power drains; tractor beams, chronitons, and various other debuff-snares can be cleared with APO or PH but as someone pointed out earlier in the thread, all that free movement doesn't matter if you've got low engine power or engines offline. Thus, Polarons seem like the logical weapon choice, along with things like Leach, Tyken's, Energy Siphon, the Breen set, etc.

Regarding #2, with comparably fewer shields to chew through than other ships, but a moderate amount of hull, it seems Kinetic damage is called for. Obviously you need some energy damage to punch through the shields initially, but once they're gone the aforementioned power drains should prevent them from regenerating too quickly and, since most escorts prefer powering engines & weapons over shields & auxiliary, even shield-healing science abilities won't be as much of a concern.

Regarding #3, it's gotta have the same basic staples of any ship these days: RSP and TT at least. Other options for reducing spike damage would be things like the Borg 3pc, placate procs, Honor Guard shields, and defense bonuses (Aegis 2pc?). To avoid being pinned and losing all that defense, Polarize Hull or APO are needed too.

Additionally, carriers are a nice way to harass an escort, as most escorts will have a difficult time killing multiple enemies at once if they are't in a cone for CSV. Recall doffs also provide bonus defense when needed (i.e. during alphas).

TL;DR - looks like a Vesta with Polarons, some torps/mines & high aux

All that having been said, so far in my tinkerings there are a few persistent walls I keep running into.

Problems:
  1. The initial snare: Keeping an escort snared is easy; getting it snared in the first place can be tough, as it needs to be in range and likely in a weapon or ability firing arc of some variety (depending on which snare/drain we're using). There's always tractor beam, but they'll just APO out of it. Timeships are another option, but pricey. Catching an escort is an even bigger problem if not flying something with a high turn rate of its own, so cruisers seem off the table. And of course, even in an escort with a purple Mk XII turn console, I get flown around in circles by JHASs.
  2. Cloak: Problematic for its defensive potential here (obviously the offensive use informs Goal #3 above) - a Klingscort can battle cloak away on the verge of death and return with full health & shields, unsnared and ready to alpha you again. Charged Particle Burst is an option, but it competes with all our power draining abilities for precious boff slots; the Grappler console is another, but it has a very long cooldown. Buffing the daylights out of Sensors skill is a third, but I've never tried this myself and anecdotally I hear it's dicey, although we'd be running plenty of aux power for abilities already anyway. A smart opponent will use temporary stealth buffs like the Honor Guard 3pc to thwart this however.
  3. Offense vs. Defense: Even if I manage to slow an escort, generally this just means I can actually hit it for once but not necessarily do much damage. With chaining TT and all the passive heals in the game currently, even a snared/drained escort can be remarkably durable. It's difficult to have both enough defense to survive alphas while simultaneously being able to do enough damage to kill a smart escort. It seems like the right answer is to have just barely enough defense to survive the game's nastiest alpha and then dump as much else into offense as possible, but I'm still trying to find that point.

Anybody else have thoughts/suggestions?
I've have very good results, especially in one on one pvp battles with using FBP. I fly a cruiser. I try to be balanced in my approach - so I don't double up on any type of weapon or torp - I try to get the procs. So I have a Polaron cannon, polarized dual beam disruptor, (fore); Phaser turret, Tetryon beam (aft); Wide angle quantum, Omega Reward Plasma torp (fore); Borg Cutting beam, Breen Transphasic (aft). I run with two FBP - lvl 1 and lvl 2, and 2 RSP - lvl 1 and lvl 2; I have lvl 3 Aux to Struc (15 sec cooldown is great), polarize hull lvl 1, HE lvl 2, Jam Sensors lvl 1, TT (with doffs - cooldown is 15 secs so I only need one) and Attack pattern Delta, and two lvl 1 Emergency power to shields. My dps is fine for PVE, in pvp which do 99% of the time, my dps is directly related to how much dps is being done to me. With Aux at 125, by the way I use 2 piece borg and MACO shields, my FBP lvl 2 deals 87% feedback damage, and lvl 1 deals 71% - at it's lowest around 30 aux power - lvl 2 fbp deals 67% and lvl 1 deal 51%.

I'm not an easy kill so most people don't like fighting me. I guess it's annoying for them when they can't just pop someone on their alpha. If an escort's not careful and I'm ready for them - my lvl 2 FBP (using Polarize hull to reduce bleedthrough damage) can cause enough feedback for them to blow themselves up if they hit with a critical. I'm a sci captain, but I've heard that a tac captain can really do serious damage with fbp becuase of their captain skills like Go Down Fighting. There's a secret on how to get you FBP maxed out - the highest the game allows at lvl 3 is .98% - my Intrepid had that - it's nasty. I've gotten many compliments too on my build. More compliments than complaints - the complaints are usually - you can't kill me cause you do no real damage. I say "whatever".

Here's what so amussing to me - I'm in a battle against and escort and their ship is lite up like a christmas tree from all the boff skills and captain skills their using. I'm using one or two and I'm thinking to myself - you're doing all that for lil ole me - ah, how sweet.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 702
05-07-2013, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadja4 View Post
I've have very good results, especially in one on one pvp battles with using FBP. I fly a cruiser. I try to be balanced in my approach - so I don't double up on any type of weapon or torp - I try to get the procs. So I have a Polaron cannon, polarized dual beam disruptor, (fore); Phaser turret, Tetryon beam (aft); Wide angle quantum, Omega Reward Plasma torp (fore); Borg Cutting beam, Breen Transphasic (aft). I run with two FBP - lvl 1 and lvl 2, and 2 RSP - lvl 1 and lvl 2; I have lvl 3 Aux to Struc (15 sec cooldown is great), polarize hull lvl 1, HE lvl 2, Jam Sensors lvl 1, TT (with doffs - cooldown is 15 secs so I only need one) and Attack pattern Delta, and two lvl 1 Emergency power to shields. My dps is fine for PVE, in pvp which do 99% of the time, my dps is directly related to how much dps is being done to me. With Aux at 125, by the way I use 2 piece borg and MACO shields, my FBP lvl 2 deals 87% feedback damage, and lvl 1 deals 71% - at it's lowest around 30 aux power - lvl 2 fbp deals 67% and lvl 1 deal 51%.

I'm not an easy kill so most people don't like fighting me. I guess it's annoying for them when they can't just pop someone on their alpha. If an escort's not careful and I'm ready for them - my lvl 2 FBP (using Polarize hull to reduce bleedthrough damage) can cause enough feedback for them to blow themselves up if they hit with a critical. I'm a sci captain, but I've heard that a tac captain can really do serious damage with fbp becuase of their captain skills like Go Down Fighting. There's a secret on how to get you FBP maxed out - the highest the game allows at lvl 3 is .98% - my Intrepid had that - it's nasty. I've gotten many compliments too on my build. More compliments than complaints - the complaints are usually - you can't kill me cause you do no real damage. I say "whatever".

Here's what so amussing to me - I'm in a battle against and escort and their ship is lite up like a christmas tree from all the boff skills and captain skills their using. I'm using one or two and I'm thinking to myself - you're doing all that for lil ole me - ah, how sweet.
This build is an abomination and has no place in this thread. This almost has to be a sock puppet account created for trolling.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 568
# 703
05-10-2013, 06:55 PM
A quick question, how many points of Insulators, Sensors and Dampeners, Hull Plating/Armor Reinforcements are worth taking for an escort ship nowadays for the best effect?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,678
# 704
05-11-2013, 03:35 AM

DeDe you are boy
make a big noise heavy torpin in the queues
gonna fly a big bird one day
you got mud on your face
you big disgrace, kickin the devs all over the place

|: we want wE waNT WARBIRDS :|


DeDe you're a man
hard hitting alpha cloakers win
gonna take on the feds one day
you got blood on your face,
you big disgrace, kicking the devs all over the place

|: we want wE waNT WARBIRDS :|

DeDe, you're an old man,
poor man trannies smashin' hull
gonna make you some plates someday
You got mud on your face
you big disgrace, somebody better put you back into your place


|: we want wE waNT WARBIRDS :|

Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 705
05-11-2013, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drake122svk View Post
A quick question, how many points of Insulators, Sensors and Dampeners, Hull Plating/Armor Reinforcements are worth taking for an escort ship nowadays for the best effect?
my personal recommendations on EVERYTHING would be

9 to insulators
6 to threat control
6 to energy armor
and not bothering with sensors, dampners, subsystem repair, or kinetic armor (threat control buffs energy and kinetic armor, that will give you enough)

i just dont see a rate of return with any of those skills even close to being worth any points in them. dampeners doesn't seem to effect TB hold, just lets you not get pushed by tbr. if tbr is tac buffed, or from a crazy npc, you want to get away from it anyway. stuns dont tend to last long enough even at 0 ID to be all that deadly. if your crews dead every point in subsystem repair seems to do nothing, and everything kills crew. sensors can buff a few skills, and stealth detection, but as a counter to sensor disrupting attacks, well they arent dangerous enough to you to warent points in them over something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post

DeDe you are boy
make a big noise heavy torpin in the queues
gonna fly a big bird one day
you got mud on your face
you big disgrace, kickin the devs all over the place

|: we want wE waNT WARBIRDS :|

ya, i got a feeling the ships have received their final pass. chater about changing them has died down, except people that want the mogai to be another breen ship.

i can give good reasons to buff the d'deridex turn rate and say them 100 times, but they are to stubborn to break from their head canon about that ship and other cruisers to improve cruiser turn rates. even if it would get them more sales, and be harmless to balance. because those slow turners are so underpowered right now they are near hopeless, vast upgrades would be required for them to break even at this point.

well, got a little side tracked there. my plans for romulan ship builds coming soon

*spoiler* hope you like tech doffs, cause every one of those warbirds can use them...
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 568
# 706
05-12-2013, 07:34 AM
Thanks! I've been wondering about the usefulness of Sensors and Dampeners myself.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 707
05-12-2013, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post

|: we want wE waNT WARBIRDS :|
I second this musical interlude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
my personal recommendations on EVERYTHING would be

9 to insulators
6 to threat control
6 to energy armor
and not bothering with sensors, dampners, subsystem repair, or kinetic armor (threat control buffs energy and kinetic armor, that will give you enough)

i just dont see a rate of return with any of those skills even close to being worth any points in them. dampeners doesn't seem to effect TB hold, just lets you not get pushed by tbr. if tbr is tac buffed, or from a crazy npc, you want to get away from it anyway. stuns dont tend to last long enough even at 0 ID to be all that deadly. if your crews dead every point in subsystem repair seems to do nothing, and everything kills crew. sensors can buff a few skills, and stealth detection, but as a counter to sensor disrupting attacks, well they arent dangerous enough to you to warent points in them over something else.
Doesn't Sensors affect the Sci captain ability Sensor Scan? Cause that would be a pretty big caveat for that skill, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
*spoiler* hope you like tech doffs, cause every one of those warbirds can use them...
*squee!* I won't have to break my addiction!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 708
05-12-2013, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
I second this musical interlude.

Doesn't Sensors affect the Sci captain ability Sensor Scan? Cause that would be a pretty big caveat for that skill, IMO.
i did mention it buffs certain things. BUT for just putting points in it for resistance i think its a waste. i did carefully qualify that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
*squee!* I won't have to break my addiction!
i know! i can quit anytime of course, but i dont have too!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 568
# 709
05-13-2013, 03:42 AM
I think Sensors only affect the Stealth debuff part of Sensor Scan, nothing else.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 710
05-13-2013, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
...

if theres a topic you have a question on, and you don't see anything addressing it, feel free to ask about it.
Hi dontdrink

I try to make build to my ferengi eng, i began this thread then what can you recommend for me in my D?kora?

Thanks in advanced for your pvp help
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