Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 31
10-29-2012, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Because Cryptic designers seem to want to bend the basic laws of economics in order to support internally constructed "fair" design principles all the time anymore (and, really, players aren't mind readers so they don't know what the paradigm for fairness is supposed to be)...
Stop that.

This is not a economy simulator, its just something that have to be fair for players because this is not EVE and are not supposed to get a 3rd job playing the game.

Besides that is not the problem with Dilithium, the problem with Dilithium is that is a monetized currency and by attaching a Dilithium price on it, they are effectively attaching a real currency price on that and that opens a lot of issues.

Dilithium would been something to convert into Zen alone, that is why there is a cap (even if there are plenty of loopholes to bypass it) and that is also why Cryptic should really stop trying to have their cake and eat it too, as using Dilithium as a currency and having a cap is impossible unless the Dilithium cost is a token cost that does not even come close to the limit and so far we seen that is not true.

I understand as things are removing the cap seems a good idea because Dilithium IS a ingame currency, its like WoW deciding that Gold can be brought by a exchange and then put a cap on it, it would go out of hand fast.

Maybe you have a point on building a economy but the issue they are just making the system overall complex for no reason and creating more issues they are fixing because Dilithium is very much "Pay to not grind", except the game have little we can grind at to start with.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 97
# 32
10-29-2012, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
... or roughly equivalent to items with a market value of 250,000 EC per Lobi spent.
Y'know, your post almost made some amount of twisted sense until you decided to start considering EC to be a "stable" anything. Everybody that spends any time at end game knows the EC "economy" (if you can even call it that) is completely uncontrolled and imbalanced. Attempting to use it as a basis for value comparison is a lost cause.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 33
10-29-2012, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.
There's something I'd like to mention: the cost to equip our bridge officers with set parts. What about a lower price after the first project completion? A significantly cheaper repetable assignment for additional parts of sets we already own at a specific mark would be really nice. I'm not sure it would break balance badly and it could allow us to do something we can't do currently.

I think it would make the new stores more acceptable.

Last edited by diogene0; 10-29-2012 at 02:27 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 34
10-29-2012, 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
We're reviewing the Dilithium costs associated with gear - both direct-reward projects, and the store prices. It's likely they will fall some, though we're not entirely certain by how much, just yet.

I'd like to point out that Store Unlock projects have no Dilithium cost in the project itself. So, should you choose to unlock the store, and then end up deciding not to purchase any of the items you now have access to, these actions won't deplete your Dilithium reserves.

Thanks for the feedback!
Umm i beleave you are very much mistaken there is a dilithium cost to the projects , so yes it does depleat my reserves,
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 642
# 35
10-29-2012, 04:53 AM
I disagree with the OP. I think dilithium costs are not high enough. Raising them across the board by 20x will make the game even better for player fun and retention. In addition, STF dilithium rewards should be halved again (to make it 1/4 current rewards).

Last edited by atomictiki; 10-29-2012 at 04:57 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,020
# 36
10-29-2012, 05:23 AM
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Players shouldn't get ripped off on the dilithium hand-in (which they have been) nor should players be trying to game this to make everything easy. Everybody else having this discussion is acting as a participant in the economy rather than as an observer trying to construct an illustration of a fair economy. And I at least think that last role should be one that developers and a few players who can look beyond self-interest should be discussing.
There's definitely some double-standards at work here - with the Devs justifying the Dilithium cost of the sets because they took a long time to acquire and they're the best gear on the one hand and the current trade-in value of only 2k Dilithium on the other.

To be honest, I've never felt that the Dilithium trade-in value was an issue - spare Mk XI and XII sets are useful and I've equipped some of my lesser-used ships and my Boffs with them - something that other players (or any potential new alts I make) simply aren't going to do with the proposed Dilithium costs.

I also suspect most players that haven't yet started acquiring the STF sets are going to skip Mk X and possibly Mk XI altogether making them largely redundant now (although, you still have to grind/pay for the Tiers for them...
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,471
# 37
10-29-2012, 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post

As Borticus already mentioned, we're in the process of evaluating Dilithium costs in general.
so you are? then plz start to set a value in whole, that more fits realty ^^... as another player mentioned it's totally overprized on all edges (he spent about 1000 bucks over the year since now; not hard to reach this with lockbox keys i guess; those f.e. should be 10 for 1 buck, not only 1 ^^).
not only the ca. 20+ bucks to purchase a few pixels in the c-store, but also the cost for gear in dilithium... 8k per day to refine and 22k for just one weapon is just...baah. other way round may fits better?!

want it faster? buy zen and sell it on the exchange for what? way too less i guess. at a course of 150 (it's around 158 for weeks now) and an input of 500 zen you will get 75000 dil. that dil is enough to buy 3 weapons. so, actually you have to grind/wait about 18-24 days, or pay 10-15 bucks, just to fit out a ship which you may already paid 20 bucks for (you're lucky if you find all the gear you want for reasnoable prices on the ec-exchange i guess).
so, 35 bucks. this is a price for what i normally can get a whole game without ever have to pay again ^^...

don't get me wrong: i love this game. why? cause it's almost the only star trek fix people can get right now, except the old shows/movies/games, and (beside bugs and ongoing complaints) it really is great fun to me (fix pvp! ) and good made in many sights (except pvp ^^).
but you may should be careful with your trekkies, or at least pwe may will make you suck the last out off your customers and then... no more trek .

also you may should think about following: lower prices, more sales, equal chances for people who don't have the time and the money to enjoy your shiny's ... ---> better overall reputation

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Last edited by wast33; 10-29-2012 at 07:13 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 669
# 38
10-29-2012, 09:03 AM
For people complaining about Dil costs for gear I did some math using the following assumptions:

1. That all trade in prices are discounted - This IS a vendor and no vendor will buy back for full price in this game.

2. That being able to buy a Mk X Standard Issue requisition with a piece of rare salvage sets its value at being equivalent to 5 EDC

3. That rare salvage, having the lowest EDC value of all items tradeable for dilithium should be the base unit for calculations.

4. Rare salvage is assumed to be traded for 50% of true value

4. That Mk XII set gear would be twice as expensive in terms of EDC as Mk XI set gear which is twice as expensive as Mk X set gear if the Mk XII set gear could be obtained for EDCs.

That said, let's show the calculations.

1 piece of Mk X set gear can be obtained for a total of 20 EDC.

20 EDC divided by five converts into 4 pieces of rare salvage.

Each piece of rare salvage trades for 1056 dilithium

4 x 1056 = 4,224 dilithium for a Mk X set piece, except that we're assuming a 50% trade in reduction so the true value would be

4,224 x 2 = 8,448 dilithium as the true dilithium value for a Mk X set piece.

As a single set is three pieces that would be:

8,448 x 3 = 25,334 dilithium for a complete Mk X set.

A Mk XI set is twice as expensive as a Mk X set so:

25,334 x 2 = 50,668 dilithium for a complete Mk XI set

And assuming that a Mk XII set would have followed the same doubling:

50,668 x 2 = 101,376 dilithium for a complete Mk XII set.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 39
10-29-2012, 09:07 AM
Your assumption is WRONG because you fail to account one thing, prototype tech is also tradeable for Dilithium.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 669
# 40
10-29-2012, 09:16 AM
Yes prototype tech is. And so is common and rare tech both of which are tradeable for the exact same amount as rare salvage yet each one of them has a different cost in terms of EDC. If you'd actually paid attention to why I chose to use Rare Salvage as my base for calculation you'd know that.

I thought the numbers would speak for themselves but apparently I overestimated people's ability to comprehend basic math. Let me spell out for you: current dilithium trade in prices are ripping you off.

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