Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 21
10-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
What does 2.5% chance for -126 shields to target really do when you're facing down a cube with umpteen-bazillion-shields? I prefer plasma because the DOT proc actually MEANS something. If Tet STOLE the shields, or was a shield DOT (or both), I'd use it. But it's really meaningless right now. Try out plasma. You'll blow up crap more. Trust me, I went from Tet to Plasma.
-126 is way too low. Like I mentioned before I've gotten over 700 per proc. Also, if you use at least 2 part Omega you'd be getting 50+ per hit per weapon damage to all shield facings. Plasma energy weapon's proc is the worst you could be using for PvE.

Distrupter - reduces resists which boosts all damage including allies

Phaser - drops subsystems again benefits all attacking target

Polaron - reduces energy levels to all subsystems again benefits all attacking target, boosted by flow cap

Tet - reduces shield HPs of target, helps all attacking target, boosted by flow caps

AP - boosts Crit hit damage, offers no benefit to allies damage

Plasma - weak DoT to hull, offers no benefit to allies damage

Polaron damage boosted by 2 part Jem set. Also benefits from Tet Glider synergy as does Tetryon weapon proc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 22
10-30-2012, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
-126 is way too low. Like I mentioned before I've gotten over 700 per proc. Also, if you use at least 2 part Omega you'd be getting 50+ per hit per weapon damage to all shield facings. Plasma energy weapon's proc is the worst you could be using for PvE.

Distrupter - reduces resists which boosts all damage including allies

Phaser - drops subsystems again benefits all attacking target

Polaron - reduces energy levels to all subsystems again benefits all attacking target, boosted by flow cap

Tet - reduces shield HPs of target, helps all attacking target, boosted by flow caps

AP - boosts Crit hit damage, offers no benefit to allies damage

Plasma - weak DoT to hull, offers no benefit to allies damage

Polaron damage boosted by 2 part Jem set. Also benefits from Tet Glider synergy as does Tetryon weapon proc.
The Plasma DoT proc is anything but weak, especially since it procs more often AND stacks. I've done as much as 5% of a cube's hull in DoT when I got lucky. Oh, and it matters. A Tetryon proc is useless after their shields are gone, if they have any. Nanite structures, Crystalline Entity... Tetryon is useless. A hull DoT is always useful, because hull is the killer.

As for that 700 number, that involves doing weapons the OLD way - Speccing into a specific energy type, not to mention the base -126 doesn't scale with Mark - unlike ALL other procs. There's a reason the old skill system got booted out. You have to REALLY try for that. And if I wanted to spec Flow Cap, I'd use Polaron. A few lucky procs, an you might disable their shields entirely for a few seconds.

Other procs:
Disruptor: My second favorite proc, since it does buff damage against the target (including the plasma proc). Hence why my favorite energy type would be Plasma-Disruptor Hybrids, which are almost non-existent.
Phaser: Good proc, but it doesn't proc often enough for me. That, and I almost always seem to only proc on Aux, uselessly.
Polaron: It's a good power drain if you're running a carrier with Advanced Power Siphon drones, especially since Polarized Disruptor weapons were released with the Temporal Box (giving you the Polaron buff as well).
AP: I've never liked Crits. It's gambling with your damage. I don't like builds that rely on it, no matter how strong that crit may be. It's like basing your entire life on rolling a fourteen on a 20-sided die.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 23
10-30-2012, 08:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
The Plasma DoT proc is anything but weak, especially since it procs more often AND stacks. I've done as much as 5% of a cube's hull in DoT when I got lucky. Oh, and it matters. A Tetryon proc is useless after their shields are gone, if they have any. Nanite structures, Crystalline Entity... Tetryon is useless. A hull DoT is always useful, because hull is the killer.

As for that 700 number, that involves doing weapons the OLD way - Speccing into a specific energy type, not to mention the base -126 doesn't scale with Mark - unlike ALL other procs. There's a reason the old skill system got booted out. You have to REALLY try for that. And if I wanted to spec Flow Cap, I'd use Polaron. A few lucky procs, an you might disable their shields entirely for a few seconds.

Other procs:
Disruptor: My second favorite proc, since it does buff damage against the target (including the plasma proc). Hence why my favorite energy type would be Plasma-Disruptor Hybrids, which are almost non-existent.
Phaser: Good proc, but it doesn't proc often enough for me. That, and I almost always seem to only proc on Aux, uselessly.
Polaron: It's a good power drain if you're running a carrier with Advanced Power Siphon drones, especially since Polarized Disruptor weapons were released with the Temporal Box (giving you the Polaron buff as well).
AP: I've never liked Crits. It's gambling with your damage. I don't like builds that rely on it, no matter how strong that crit may be. It's like basing your entire life on rolling a fourteen on a 20-sided die.
What are you talking about?

The +700 is the proc which is based on Flow Caps. It has nothing to do w/pre Season 5 skill system.

I never said to use Tetryon weapons over Polaron in fact I have it listed under them ...

Crits aren't gambling w/your damage. They can happen quite often if you have a good Acc to Defense ratio and use other methods to boost crit frequency. They increase your spike damage. Fyi, CritH rate is much higher than plasma proc rate if you take any kind of effort to boost it.

Plasma Energy Weapons are the worst in PvE (PvP too for that matter). They don't offer a force multiplier and the base damage is so weak it doesn't make up for the lack of force multiplier.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,427
# 24
10-30-2012, 08:07 PM
Isn't the plasma burn Tac-buffed? Or does it only benefit from particle gen? I know it's the former for torps, but they don't actually deal plasma damage, so...

Very complicated.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 25
10-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
What are you talking about?

The +700 is the proc which is based on Flow Caps. It has nothing to do w/pre Season 5 skill system.

I never said to use Tetryon weapons over Polaron in fact I have it listed under them ...

Crits aren't gambling w/your damage. They can happen quite often if you have a good Acc to Defense ratio and use other methods to boost crit frequency. They increase your spike damage. Fyi, CritH rate is much higher than plasma proc rate if you take any kind of effort to boost it.

Plasma Energy Weapons are the worst in PvE (PvP too for that matter). They don't offer a force multiplier and the base damage is so weak it doesn't make up for the lack of force multiplier.
The spec into Flow Caps is what I'm talking about. You're putting skill points into a skill for the effect it has on your weapons. Just like the pre-S5 skill system.

On to your crit "point": quite often isn't all the time. If it's not all the time, it's gambling with your damage. Gambling is relying on something that occurs by chance. So, what you say isn't gambling exactly is.

Base damage is the same for all weapons of the same mark, and is only altered by Mods ([Dmg], usually, but [Acc] can help). Place that next to the point that the DoT is a decent bit of guaranteed damage in PvE, as no NPC uses Hazard Emitters. Guaranteed bonus damage qualifies as a "force multiplier".

Let's not forget that, even with that -700 proc on your Tetryon weapons, any shield heal will counter that effortlessly. Two seconds under TSS I will make up for that. Also, even -700 is nothing compared to the shield capacities of most NPC ships (Cubes, Tacs, Tarantulas), or any player being smart with their shields. My tank runs 1 Field Gen and the Paratrinic shield. He has 12,977 capacity. What do you expect -700 to do to that? An extra cannon volley? I've recovered from worse. Even with the Retro Borg shield, my cap is still 9,075, and my NATURAL regen will overcome your proc (I get 733 per 6 out of those). Yes, plasma proc can be countered by HE. But what happens when HE goes away and you're set on fire while it's on cooldown? Damage happens, straight to the hull, and Hull HoTs have a harder time with that. Also, let me real quick max out Power Insulators. Your proc does nothing now, mine is still effective.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)

Last edited by icegavel; 10-30-2012 at 09:02 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 563
# 26
10-30-2012, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
A Tetryon proc is useless after their shields are gone, if they have any.
Love my Phased Tetryons. I like seeing them more like blue phasers with an extra special shield kick.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 27
10-31-2012, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
The spec into Flow Caps is what I'm talking about. You're putting skill points into a skill for the effect it has on your weapons. Just like the pre-S5 skill system.

On to your crit "point": quite often isn't all the time. If it's not all the time, it's gambling with your damage. Gambling is relying on something that occurs by chance. So, what you say isn't gambling exactly is.

Base damage is the same for all weapons of the same mark, and is only altered by Mods ([Dmg], usually, but [Acc] can help). Place that next to the point that the DoT is a decent bit of guaranteed damage in PvE, as no NPC uses Hazard Emitters. Guaranteed bonus damage qualifies as a "force multiplier".

Let's not forget that, even with that -700 proc on your Tetryon weapons, any shield heal will counter that effortlessly. Two seconds under TSS I will make up for that. Also, even -700 is nothing compared to the shield capacities of most NPC ships (Cubes, Tacs, Tarantulas), or any player being smart with their shields. My tank runs 1 Field Gen and the Paratrinic shield. He has 12,977 capacity. What do you expect -700 to do to that? An extra cannon volley? I've recovered from worse. Even with the Retro Borg shield, my cap is still 9,075, and my NATURAL regen will overcome your proc (I get 733 per 6 out of those). Yes, plasma proc can be countered by HE. But what happens when HE goes away and you're set on fire while it's on cooldown? Damage happens, straight to the hull, and Hull HoTs have a harder time with that. Also, let me real quick max out Power Insulators. Your proc does nothing now, mine is still effective.
I'm calling B.S.

1. You claimed Tet proc was well below 200, I cited how you were wrong.

2. Then you bring up Pre Season 5 skill "As for that 700 number, that involves doing weapons the OLD way - Speccing into a specific energy type, not to mention the base -126 doesn't scale with Mark - unlike ALL other procs". The "OLD way" boosted the damage of the weapons when speccin'g into a specific energy type. Flow caps also boosts a 2nd weapon proc, tet glider, various other shield/power drains.

3. Now you're claiming the new way is the old way ...

4. I showed how all other proc's are better than plasma for energy weapons.

5. You claim since APs boost crits and crits are % based you don't "gamble".

6. I point out how the APs are actually more frequent then weapon procs b/c CritH can be much higher than weapon proc rate.

7. You obtusely, ignore the point crit damage occurs more frequently then proc rates and continue to dismiss crit bonus in leui of the worst proc in the game since it "gambling" even though it's actually better odds w/a halfway decent build.

9. Again, the 700 is to shields which are much more difficult to crack than Hull since there are many more ways to repair sheilds and max it's resists effectively. It also has synergy w/other drains including tet glider.

10. The energy weapon proc damage of plasma is weak. Not only is it clearable, but w/my Tac I hope I get hit w/it so my GDF is more effective. I'd much rather have my shields up w/plasma proc going than my shield being stripped. Further the more I drain shields, the less allies' damage goes to shield, hense the force multiplier.

Sorry, but you're emperically wrong.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,502
# 28
10-31-2012, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Tetryon for space is boosted by flow caps skill, I've gotten over 700 a proc. It also effects Polaron amount fyi.

ooooh... did not know that

now if i knew how to see it if my Tetryon beams proc i could actually pay attention to this. ;P

really i just use different weapons on different ships because i want the color to look good on the ship, those procs are so minor most of the time i don't even notice them (on either end)

of course i notice when my engines or shields go down because of Phasers.
and Plasma Fire is annoying like hell... not because of the damage but because of the silly visual effect that makes your whole ship be a ball of fire, sometimes cant even see where i'm steering, so Hazard Emitters is a must have on every ship for me, alone for removing the visual annoyance.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 29
10-31-2012, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I'm calling B.S.

1. You claimed Tet proc was well below 200, I cited how you were wrong.

2. Then you bring up Pre Season 5 skill "As for that 700 number, that involves doing weapons the OLD way - Speccing into a specific energy type, not to mention the base -126 doesn't scale with Mark - unlike ALL other procs". The "OLD way" boosted the damage of the weapons when speccin'g into a specific energy type. Flow caps also boosts a 2nd weapon proc, tet glider, various other shield/power drains.

3. Now you're claiming the new way is the old way ...

4. I showed how all other proc's are better than plasma for energy weapons.

5. You claim since APs boost crits and crits are % based you don't "gamble".

6. I point out how the APs are actually more frequent then weapon procs b/c CritH can be much higher than weapon proc rate.

7. You obtusely, ignore the point crit damage occurs more frequently then proc rates and continue to dismiss crit bonus in leui of the worst proc in the game since it "gambling" even though it's actually better odds w/a halfway decent build.

9. Again, the 700 is to shields which are much more difficult to crack than Hull since there are many more ways to repair sheilds and max it's resists effectively. It also has synergy w/other drains including tet glider.

10. The energy weapon proc damage of plasma is weak. Not only is it clearable, but w/my Tac I hope I get hit w/it so my GDF is more effective. I'd much rather have my shields up w/plasma proc going than my shield being stripped. Further the more I drain shields, the less allies' damage goes to shield, hense the force multiplier.

Sorry, but you're emperically wrong.
Except that I showed you numbers. Clearly, you are ignoring logical evidence to support your claims. So, I propose a test. It may take a little while, but it would accurately prove which proc is superior. There's realistically only one way to test them: Equal footing.

So, the test, should you choose to accept, would be as follows. Both of us roll a new character (Let's say Fed Engineer). We both go for the same race and trait set. We max these characters, and get an Assault Cruiser (Sovvie). Once this is done, the test will be performed. We'll both use 8 white mark X beam weapons and base engine/shield/deflector. No consoles, BOffs, or DOffs, and with an identical skill set that gives NEITHER weapon the advantage (skill set can be decided later). During the test, there will be no use of powers, no shield distributing. We'll fight to the death 10 times, recording each proc (preferably with a non-biased person watching), and whoever winds up with the most kills has the better proc. Since everything would be identical (stats, base damage, weapons, gear), there would be no doubt of the results.

Do you accept the Energy Type Challenge?

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by matridunadan1 View Post
Love my Phased Tetryons. I like seeing them more like blue phasers with an extra special shield kick.
As a rule of thumb, if it doesn't have shields, it doesn't have subsystems, so the Phaser proc is just as useless. The only exception I can think of is STF transwarp gates, which only have weapons and aux.
CHARACTER GRID (@Lord-Ice):
___ |___ _ Fed ____| ____ _KDF __ ____| Rom
Tac_|_Thomas Hale_| __ __Illusion _____| Silence (K)
Eng | ___Antilles _ _| _ Mirror Rygobeth__| N'Vek (F)
Sci _| __ Rygobeth _| _Lukor Son of Q'Tar | Devala (F)

Last edited by icegavel; 10-31-2012 at 12:50 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 30
10-31-2012, 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
Except that I showed you numbers. Clearly, you are ignoring logical evidence to support your claims. So, I propose a test. It may take a little while, but it would accurately prove which proc is superior. There's realistically only one way to test them: Equal footing.

So, the test, should you choose to accept, would be as follows. Both of us roll a new character (Let's say Fed Engineer). We both go for the same race and trait set. We max these characters, and get an Assault Cruiser (Sovvie). Once this is done, the test will be performed. We'll both use 8 white mark X beam weapons and base engine/shield/deflector. No consoles, BOffs, or DOffs, and with an identical skill set that gives NEITHER weapon the advantage (skill set can be decided later). During the test, there will be no use of powers, no shield distributing. We'll fight to the death 10 times, recording each proc (preferably with a non-biased person watching), and whoever winds up with the most kills has the better proc. Since everything would be identical (stats, base damage, weapons, gear), there would be no doubt of the results.

Do you accept the Energy Type Challenge?
Do I accept a pointless set of limitations, no ....

Consoles Deflectors and Skill point investments effect procs as has been explained to you. You're wanting to gimp several weapons' proc type for no good reason.

No shield distrobution lol? No Boffs to resist, repair, clear lol?

I expect you want me to fly like I rode the short bus to school when I was a child as well, lol?

Why not have a no turning, no power changing rules as well lol?

You really are in denial.
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