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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 41
10-30-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corsair114 View Post
Then allow me to enlighten you, young one. PvP thrives on tactical and strategic choices, using ability choice, gear choice, Captain choice, ship choice, and the almighty teamwork combination of those choices to force situational imbalances in your ("your" and "you" are used in the context of a team of players) favor while attempting to turn over situations where you would be at a disadvantage. This all occurs in a mostly blind situation where you can't see with certainty anything other than your opponent's Captain and Ship types until after the initiate.

When you add ships like the Vesta (looks, at the moment) that are well rounded without clear significant weaknesses, you get a tool that is extremely powerful and one that mostly obosoletes other tools given that it has fewer weaknesses relative to its strengths, which directly translates to having the upper hand in more situations, and being wrong footed in fewer, before combat ever takes place.
In other words, why have Vista if you can have Windows 7?
Why have the ugly sister when the attractive one is in the next room?
Why have a Defiant if you can afford a Jemmy?
Why have a candlestick whrn you can have a torch?
Why listen to Justin Beiber when The Beatles are on Spotify?
Why have any other science ship with its own set of weaknessess when the day Season 7 comes out the Vesta appears in the CStore?
What was my point again...?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
# 42
10-30-2012, 02:53 PM
How to avoid bitterness and disappointment about PvP in STO:

Answer: Get rid of it. Problem solved.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 855
# 43
10-30-2012, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainluke85 View Post
How to avoid bitterness and disappointment about PvP in STO:

Answer: Get rid of it. Problem solved.
I'm guessing we got something nerfed that you loved, and didn't need at all. As long as you have a spacebar, you're good.
Quote:
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ RIYOTT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ: Have you wondered that maybe all the things they've added to the gaem lately is to literally make PvP unbearable? Because everything they've added has no use in PvE at all; we know the big boss hates 14 yo min maxers
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 44
10-30-2012, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
In other words, why have Vista if you can have Windows 7?
Why have the ugly sister when the attractive one is in the next room?
Why have a Defiant if you can afford a Jemmy?
Why have a candlestick whrn you can have a torch?
Why listen to Justin Beiber when The Beatles are on Spotify?
Why have any other science ship with its own set of weaknessess when the day Season 7 comes out the Vesta appears in the CStore?
What was my point again...?
3. This problem is present in the bug to a point, though with the Fleet Defiant and Prometheus, it's got a couple of ships than can be considered to be in its league. Armitage, too, if we're being honest. Now compare the Jemmy to any of the Fleet KDF Raptors or Escorts. Let's not kid ourselves, either, damage is far and away the easiest thing to repeatedly mitigate in STO.

6. Straight to the heart of the problem. By all accounts so far, the Vesta doesn't have any clear weaknesses. Of course, it's (mathematically) possible Cryptic will surprise us and the Vesta won't be insanely powerful and will have some kind of trade off for its abilities.

[wild speculation] There won't be a Fleet version of the Vesta, but instead it will be super strong straight out of the C-Store like the Odyssey flagships with a stripped down version available from the T5 shipyard.

@CaptainLuke

Your "Boohoo I don't want to read that things aren't as good as it could be so kill it with fire" attitude is shameful and disgusting, given that you have all the agency in the world to not read the forums or post in these threads.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,046
# 45
10-30-2012, 05:54 PM
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...

...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.

However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.

Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...

With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7
# 46
10-30-2012, 06:29 PM
Just show up to have fun. PVE is SOOO predictable I only die nowadays because I fall asleep in boredom.

PVP is always new (most of the time). I even kill Klinks now (but sometimes I wonder if they are just dying to be nice to me).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,752
# 47
10-30-2012, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...

...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.

However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.

Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...

With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
there should be no single THAT ship, power creep is game cancer. the minute they went away from different but equal to flatly better, they ruined the game.

if wish i could have been there for their reaction to the regent release, it was nothing but complaining about how it was inferior to the fleet ships. the masses arent satisfied with anything less now, and the more they ratchet up the power creep the worse its going to get.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 48
10-30-2012, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It takes me back to the old Fed Carrier discussions where the Vesta was often brought up (the Ambassador discussions as well for that matter, though it was always the Ambassador folks showing up in the Fed Carrier threads)...

...so I have to admit somewhat of a bias, since I was pro Vesta. There was a lot of KDF hatred of the Feds getting a carrier. The Kitty Karrier was hopefully a joke at the time - ahem - anyway... and there was no Armitage even mentioned.

However, in all of those discussions - it was never made out that the Vesta was going to be the One Ship to Rule Them All. For the most part, even in the speculation threads about the Vesta after the announcement... it's not been made out to be "THAT" ship.

Outside of a few folks making the claim - the same folks that if you've read their other posts in general about ships...it would appear they're contradicting themselves - I'm still not sure where the "THAT" ship thing is really coming from...

With the "no weakness" thing that keeps being brought up - well, no duh - if the ship is the combination of every other ship out there that these people are making it out to be - that would be the case, no? But be a little realistic here, eh? They've picked out the best parts of several ships and lumped it together... of course if somebody does that, whatever ship they're talking about is going to look like "THAT" ship...
I haven't even been around that long and I don't remember any claims about the Vesta being the Fed carrier at all. The only consistent claim (and one well-sourced by numerous devs/Stahl) was that the Vesta would be a science ship that can equip dual cannons. Science ship has a very well-established definition, as does the benefits implied in giving it full weapon capability. Now I'm not ruling out that what you're saying is true, but then if that were the case, why are people so surprised that the Vesta is getting a spambox?

It's a little ironic that you're calling our credibility into question when you're the one who hasn't once provided a source for anything you're claiming. On the other hand I can pull multiple quotes from dev Q&As and the boards in general to back up every last word I've said.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 49
10-30-2012, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
there should be no single THAT ship, power creep is game cancer. the minute they went away from different but equal to flatly better, they ruined the game.

if wish i could have been there for their reaction to the regent release, it was nothing but complaining about how it was inferior to the fleet ships. the masses arent satisfied with anything less now, and the more they ratchet up the power creep the worse its going to get.
Power creep may be at stage 2 now in STO. Imo.

I dont mind high power gaming if the system is balanced well enough.
I currently do not believe STO has this yet in PvE because its to s in required skill soft/hard and PvP is strictly unbalanced on many individual points.
I have a wish for NPC coding but wont put it here.
I can only see ideas to fix a few PvP issues but wont list here because they all already have been alot.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,046
# 50
10-30-2012, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
It's a little ironic that you're calling our credibility into question
It's not a case of calling credibility into question - it's a shout out to the credibility from other threads and the perceived overreaction that's taking place here with out any hard facts.

If there was not the credibility from other posts and threads - well - my tone would be very different...

As for the Vesta, it was player discussion - that I last participated in back in March. You can do a search for Archived Post... it's there. Actually, I can do a search for it - because folks quoted me - and the name shows up in the quotes even though it doesn't show up on the post, funny - eh?

CBS gave the green light for the Mark's ships back at the end of Jan/start of Feb - that's where all the discussion about the Vesta as a shuttlecarrier began...
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