C'mon I've had and at the times reported threats made to me in PvE forums, never had that in PvP forums. There are posters who insult in this forums yes. There are far more times I've been insulted not just in other forums, but in PuG STFs than in PvP zones. This is just selective outrage.

This. +1 completely agree.

Now I understand that the general 'feel' of what someone tries to communicate over a forum medium can be lost... but people need to realize that it doesn't matter how much someone may know about the game and its mechanics, at the end of the day it doesnt count for anything and wont hold for anything in the real world.

It would be fantastic if people treated one another with some measure of respect as they are a person. Person 1 has a question, Person 2 has an answer (it should never be in your head as being THE answer), Person 1 disagrees, Person 2 has already said their peace and walks away. If Person 1 was wrong, he/she will either learn or not learn, Person 2 should not feel obligated to correct them. If Person 1 is disrespectful, just walk away. Watching people fighting in forums is like watching Kim Kardashian giving birth to Honey Boo-Boo, it's not pretty and it's pretty stupid.

Just because someone may have a different opinion, is no reason to polarize the forums to the extent of holding grudges for extended periods of time and bullying. Some people just can't be the bigger man/woman, leave and let be, and walk away... to them to be the bigger individual is to be right.

So to repeat,

Kim Kardashian giving birth to Honey Boo-Boo.

I want to comment on this, in particular. Throw in the obligatory disclaimer that I don't officially speak for PWE, blah, blah.

Yes, in my opinion it's entirely possible to be insulting and argumentative and stay under that threshold where someone's an obvious troll. It just means you have a clever troll on your hands, or that they're completely oblivious to their patronizing or hostile attitude and the effect it has on others.

Heck, for all I know I fit in that last category. How does an obtuse person know they're obtuse?

When this happens, what a moderator tends to see is the angry response that breaks the rule and not the attitude that provoked it that's not a clear violation of the rule.

Like you say, sometimes it takes awhile to see a subtle pattern. But I can't moderate "subtle patterns"; I have to moderate infractions of rules. And, as I have said before, it is unfortunately not against the forum rules to have a superiority complex cloaked underneath a veneer of civility. Ego trips are not within my mandate.

(The forums might get awfully empty if it was... I'd have to ban myself, even)

This is why the rules and the boilerplate moderation text says over and over not to respond to offensive posts. The subtle troll might be hard to spot, but the flamer isn't; they're the ones getting the warnings and infractions.

I have purposely left moderation of this thread up to BranFlakes to decide, precisely because I think we need to be able to look back at this thread and honestly ask what it says about how each of us comes across in this forum. Like I said, "Exhibit A".

I know there are some folks who think that forum moderation is censorship and that any form of censorship is bad.

But pages and pages of the kind of dreck I've been reading in this thread and elsewhere convinces me that there are those people who are absolutely convinced they have the right to post any way they choose and don't care about how they come across until Brandon gives them an infraction. The fact that they agreed to follow the social rules of this forum when they signed up is meaningless to them.

Those people need to be moderated for the good of the entire Community, in my opinion, and it's called "Keeping the Peace".

I also understand that it seems unfair when one person gets moderated and somebody else doesn't. It is unfair.

All I can say to that is, it's a lot of work to read and re-read pages and pages of posts and walls of text, and then to try to moderate a chain of posts that goes back through pages and pages. I try to follow the chain backward if I can, but stuff gets missed and sometimes it's just too much work to deal with anything but the most recent posts.

I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just relating the enormity of the problem. A lot of the time the situation is already going down in flames by the time I see it.

Brandon recently announced that the STO Forums will eventually be getting an upgrade similar to the Neverwinter forums, and that the 'Report Post' feature will be returning. No ETA yet, but that will go a long way toward helping us find the posts we miss and preventing the sparks from turning into flames.

If Flakes is losing so much sleep over our tiny little subforum, then give us some Moderators exclusive to the PVP forum that understand how it works.

Me posting late at night in these forums should not be equated to me losing sleep over them >< I am sleeping just fine

Actually, I've noticed things have really lightened up in here lately -- so, thumbs up! I'm glad too, especially with the PvP Bootcamp idea coming to fruition.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

That's not really such a bad suggestion... to put a couple of PvP'ers in charge of moderating this particular forum (not that that's my department)... but what would you expect them to do, exactly?

I assume you mean the PvP forum needs a Moderator that understands how PvP works, and I don't necessarily disagree with that, but why do they need to understand PvP to enforce the forum rules?

I'm not saying none of the Mods understands PvP, mind you. I don't know that. I freely admit my own ignorance, and someday I'll get around to letting you guys blow me into atoms.

But if Brandon, who is one of the most easy-going, socially-savvy guys around, says that he thinks the PvP forums are out of hand... then he probably has a point.

EDIT: D'oh, ninjad by Branflakes!

In addition to Brandon's post above I'd like to point out I keep a particular eye on the PVP forums, not by any request but through personal interest. I'm not a great PVPer but my fleet (LaFamilia) enjoy it, so it's in my interests to watch the forum. Rest assured it is watched.

brandon please go back and delete the posts that sophlogimo has broken the forum rules in.

i think its only fair.

or at least this thread, you could start there.

after all, i get my posts edited by you when i break the rules.

then you should count yourself among the lucky ones!

Sometimes my posts show edited with nothing changed... I like how when that happens, it makes me feel like part of the group.