Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,058
# 231
11-08-2012, 08:34 AM
I think the bottom line is banning people for life from a forum they can rejoin in 2 min with a new email address... is sort of pointless.

Add a proper ignore button...

And quite honestly in ALL the forum sections ignore anything short of the types of things that would get you arrested.

Frankly there is a language filter in place...
Add a filter for posters your users no longer wish to deal with...

Whats left to mod at that point... if someone reports something send them a link to an instruction page for the ignore feature.

No more playing of the English language dissection game... frankly most of us that wish to insult people and go unnoticed are capable of wording things ambiguously enough to go unmoderated.

If you really want to shoot for continuity... add a feature where in if a set number of people put you on ignore you are subject to a 24 hour automated forum vacation.

Frankly the moderation in these forums has NEVER worked... from one hand to the next back to the days of Wish... in general it simply breeds negativity.

Bottom line is as well meaning as the moderation has been, none of you are English Professors... it is clear to almost the entire community (ok thats anecdotal... still think I know a good number of the people that frequent this section) you are simply not capable of sifting through every post in relation to every thread and every thread that came before it to pick out the long conn subtle troll.

Don't get me wrong there are situations where people rightfully deserve to be banned. I think we should all know those at sight... no debate no interpretation needed. I would say Moderation should be present but mostly out of sight, unless the worst of the worst pops up. For everything else... this is an adult forum and a simple ignore button removes the need for oversight. imo
/channel_join Tyler Durden

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 11-08-2012 at 08:42 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,058
# 232
11-08-2012, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
When something questionable happens "like drug reference" in "why do you do something so stupid" context, it should yield you warning max, not insta ban from forums.
^

Exactly... how does something that we could argue convincingly is a harmless pop culture reference = lifetime ban again ? Its illogical.

At some point you have to ask what is the intent of the law? Is the no drug reference provision of the forum policy honestly there to protect us from a line that you can hear 10-20 times a night on prime time television? There is nothing anyone that is reading this forum would find offensive about the line.

I think the real issue is the moderation in question, and yes I know we are not supposed to be talking about it had... zero to do with the line. It was an excuse plain and simple. I will digress now, sorry if that crossed any lines.

Again I honestly believe moderation causes nothing but discourse. Restrict it to the most sever cases.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 233
11-08-2012, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Exactly. I agree with that. But not everyone lives on North American continent, did it occur to you ?? And there lies my problem. Nowhere in the forum rules is written that forum posts are moderated according to the American laws and way of life. What is legal in one country is not legal in another.

An American can troll me and flame me with his advanced vocabulary without breaking the rules, stupid european like me, has to use...well not so subtle vocabulary. It's called language barrier. In case of forums it's frequently case of cultural and language barriers.

When something questionable happens "like drug reference" in "why do you do something so stupid" context, it should yield you warning max, not insta ban from forums.
Agreed, if it was a first infraction.
Perma banning someone for a first infraction in almost any circumstance (Almost any) is pretty silly, and a bit over the top.

I think we are actually in agreement there.

However, if there have been multiple warnings and infractions, the a perma ban is totally called for.

I am also not talking about american law ?? kind of wondering where that came from. I am saying this.

As the statement in question is a clear american colloquialism, with a meaning that is plainly a drug reference, because the RULES (Law) of the forum say no. NO it is. Doesn't use any country's laws. I'm talking about forum rules. Only thing i am linking as American here is the statement, and its meaning. If that is against forum rules, then it must be moderated.

Now, my opinion about a broader topic being discussed.

Currently in each sub forum you can see a list of the moderators for that sub-forum. Right now, that list is the same name everywhere. That sucks.

a mod that is real inspired by Fleet Stuff should be the Mod in that section.
a mod that loves the Foundry should be the name I see there.
a mod that loves PvP in the PvP section.
All of them on the general topic boards.
A few more than we have now.

Basically a situation where a mod gets to moderate a forum he actively wants to take part in , and also has the secondary job with the whole mod team of moderating the general discussion threads.

That'd be my solution.
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 234
11-08-2012, 09:02 AM
One yardstick for moderation is the difference between "know" and "prove". And it's the same yardstick that the PvP'ers prefer.

Just like one person can say they "know" how the game works and somebody else can actually back it up with hard facts.

I can "know" that somebody is causing a disruption on the forums by the general tone of their posts. But if I can't show beyond a reasonable doubt that it was their intent to do that, it's not fair to accuse them of it. If there's no clear violation of a forum rule, any moderation I do is in danger of being too subjective and not grounded in fact.

What I can do, though, is post reminders about keeping things cool. Try to defuse things before they go over the top. And maybe we can come up with other ways to help.

Somebody suggested a reputation system for the forum users. I don't think we need that. What would work even better is a way to score individual threads and posts, as with a "Like" feature. Essentially, let the Community decide which posts are the most helpful. If you guys could do that in the PvP forums, it would help newbies decide which posts to pay attention to. Any reputation system can be gamed, but it would be harder to sabotage something like that.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 235
11-08-2012, 09:09 AM
I would agree with bluegeek that a by-post rep system would be preferable to a user one. Many people do drive-bys where they'll give great info and then never be seen again.

It's also a problem that when you have a user rep system, people tend to become close-minded and repost/parrot only the orthodox wisdom in the hopes of getting upvotes. That's still sorta true with a by-post system but it's not nearly as bad. I'd like to hope there could be some kind of happy medium between allowing for change and creativeness and giving support to good, solid common knowledge.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,058
# 236
11-08-2012, 09:14 AM
My learned friend HippeJohn allow me to retort. (lol)

I mentioned the intent of the law (rule) what ever we are going to call that provision. For the following reason; moderation = interpretation. There in lies the real issue. The rules are general (as they need to be I have no doubt) in general 50% of every post on these forums could run into issues with the rules if a moderator choose to interpret in such away.

Think of our everyday lives... how often have you driven past a police cruiser doing 2-5 over the speed limit ? Did you get a ticket ? Likely not right... you where breaking the law no doubt.

I had a 20 page argument with someone in a TOR beta thread, over the word Damn. I kid you not there was a group in that beta that where ready to boycott that game because a voice over in the beta used the word damn. Which of course is NOT foul language. It is of course a latin legal word meaning to "pronounce judgment upon." Not sure exactly where that story was going... oh yes. Interpretation is always in the ear or eye in this case of the beholder.

Hmmm perhaps we should all be more legal in our speak around here... I vote we all just start our posts with... My learned friend. haha
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 237
11-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Hmmm perhaps we should all be more legal in our speak around here... I vote we all just start our posts with... My learned friend. haha
+1

/10char

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 238
11-08-2012, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Somebody suggested a reputation system for the forum users. I don't think we need that. What would work even better is a way to score individual threads and posts, as with a "Like" feature. Essentially, let the Community decide which posts are the most helpful. If you guys could do that in the PvP forums, it would help newbies decide which posts to pay attention to. Any reputation system can be gamed, but it would be harder to sabotage something like that.
Oh man. Yeah. This ^^

Per post, not per poster. Gets to the heart of the problem of misinformation without really becoming a popularity contest or something to game. Seems simpler to implement too. Man. Good idea.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 239
11-08-2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
...snip...

Hmmm perhaps we should all be more legal in our speak around here... I vote we all just start our posts with... My learned friend. haha
Dude. You rock.
In my personal life, I always default to the seven words George Carlin claims as the ones never to say LoL.

Yeah. I honestly think we are all in agreement here. I really just thought I heard people claiming that the phrase in discussion could be interpreted differently. I found that idea to be hogwash. As watching my favorite show (MiSFiTs) has shown me , there are specific british colloquialisms that until recently I didn't understand. Didn't change that they are offensive (and on the show) funny insults. Just because I'm from a different country doesn't change their meaning or interpretation. Saavy ?

or am I crazy ?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 240
11-08-2012, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Somebody suggested a reputation system for the forum users. I don't think we need that. What would work even better is a way to score individual threads and posts, as with a "Like" feature. Essentially, let the Community decide which posts are the most helpful. If you guys could do that in the PvP forums, it would help newbies decide which posts to pay attention to. Any reputation system can be gamed, but it would be harder to sabotage something like that.
Do we include a dislike button as well?

Only question that comes to my mind. But yeah, per post, not per poster is great.
the fact that this allows posts by posters who post once and then disappear to remain highlighted if they are awesome, and as redricky just said. It means it's not a popularity contest.

By the way. I would be against a "dislike" button.
A "like" button would result in good, informative posts rising in likes, while others fall lower on the list. It becomes about information and not about whose the coolest , most well liked.

Bravo, and +1 for the idea.
BlueGeek is a genius
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