Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 1 Tired of the forum's bleakness
11-01-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm a huge Star Trek fan and play STO for hours per day. I often look through the forums to see what's happening and see where people's builds are taking them, although of late I've found I've been dropping by less and less. The reason? The forum is becoming a place where people come to whine. Really? Are we that childish that all we can do is whine?

People complain about the ships in the lockboxes, crying out that it's unfair, that it's illegal gambling, that they have no luck and wish ships would go in to the C-Store. The Vesta gets announced as a C-Store ship and what happens? People crying out that they don't like it going in to the C-Store, that it's too expensive, that it should be given out free. Do all of you whiners complain like that when you go in to a store and something you want is out of your price range? If not, then why do it here?

People complain about starbases being a grind, they're too resource intensive, they take too long. PWE puts out episodes and they're done in a day, leaving people crying out for more. If long term systems aren't put in place then there'll be nothing left to do.

People complain about the lack of KDF content. PWE are ALWAYS going to focus on the most profitable aspects of the game. If you want more KDF content you need to attract more players on to the KDF.

People, you need to remember that PWE doesn't make this game out of love, social obligation or for the betterment of humanity. They do it as they're a business and it's profitable. They will strike a balance between what the majority want with profit. I don't begrudge them that at all. As a photographer I only offer my services in the pursuit of profit. People who work for a company offer their service in pursuit of a wage. Begrudging them of their pursuit of profit is hypocrisy of the highest magnitude.

Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't use the forums to suggest improvements. Far from it. When one person starts a thread asking PWE for change however, there's no need to twenty people to put many paragraphed responses that say exactly the same thing as the OP. One thing I've noted is that hippiejon will post a "/ signed" in response to the things he agrees with. Perfect. No long winded tirades, no wearying repetitiveness, but a clear message that he agrees with what was said. Such a response would a) make the forums less of a drag to read and b) convey to other readers and PWE that the idea/thought/suggestion has followers.

One last note. If you're really that unhappy with the game then why on Earth are you playing it? If the only thing you have to do with your life is engage in a game that you hate then you really need to take a good look at yourself and your life.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,105
# 2
11-01-2012, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
I'm a huge Star Trek fan and play STO for hours per day. I often look through the forums to see what's happening and see where people's builds are taking them, although of late I've found I've been dropping by less and less. The reason? The forum is becoming a place where people come to whine. Really? Are we that childish that all we can do is whine?

Well in fairness, This entire post is a whine about whining, isn't it? But let's ignore that, cause you raise some valid questions.

People complain about the ships in the lockboxes, crying out that it's unfair, that it's illegal gambling, that they have no luck and wish ships would go in to the C-Store.

Personally I H-A-T-E Grab-bags, and the re*ard who decided to put them in the game... But I do what I am allowed to do... I voice my opinion on the forums (yes... It's actually OK for me to say that I don't want grab-bags...), and I vote with my wallet, simply by not getting anything from the C-Store... AT ALL.
But I am not forcing my opinions on others... That's the key for me... People who FORCE their opinions on others... They are the bad guys IMO.


The Vesta gets announced as a C-Store ship and what happens? People crying out that they don't like it going in to the C-Store, that it's too expensive, that it should be given out free. Do all of you whiners complain like that when you go in to a store and something you want is out of your price range? If not, then why do it here?

It's ugly as sin, hence I won't get it (combined with the fact that I won't use the C-Store untill the grab-bags are gone from the game, and that's not gonna happen)... It may be too expensive, or it may not... Not really gonna change the price of it... if people want it to be cheaper, present well founded arguments here on the forums, and convince other people not to buy it that way.

People complain about starbases being a grind, they're too resource intensive, they take too long.

Well The Starbases ARE a grind... Could be change by simply introducing a ton of new projects, with diffrent rewards and requirements than the current what... 12 projects?
I suggested this on raptr in the DStahl QnA session... He managed to dodge the suggestion, quite gracefully with a story about the upcoming embassy.


PWE puts out episodes and they're done in a day, leaving people crying out for more. If long term systems aren't put in place then there'll be nothing left to do.

I do to some degree agree, and to some degree disagree. Yes, most new content can be completed pretty fast, and we are in fact in desperate need of more long-term viable content. But right now we are at least GETTING new content, which is more than we can say for 2011, where we were lucky to get what... 2 remastered missions?

So right now I am semi-happy, and probably for a few weeks past season 7 release, at which point, I will have new energy for old missions.


People complain about the lack of KDF content. PWE are ALWAYS going to focus on the most profitable aspects of the game. If you want more KDF content you need to attract more players on to the KDF.

People, you need to remember that PWE doesn't make this game out of love, social obligation or for the betterment of humanity. They do it as they're a business and it's profitable. They will strike a balance between what the majority want with profit. I don't begrudge them that at all. As a photographer I only offer my services in the pursuit of profit. People who work for a company offer their service in pursuit of a wage. Begrudging them of their pursuit of profit is hypocrisy of the highest magnitude.

Yes... KDF dosen't have much content, but from bushiness standpoint, you are completely right.

Geuss this is a chicken or the egg problem somehow:

To get more players KDF side, you need more content, but to make KDF viable for more content, it needs more players...

Of cause recent sicence has proven, that the chicken had to have come first.


Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't use the forums to suggest improvements. Far from it. When one person starts a thread asking PWE for change however, there's no need to twenty people to put many paragraphed responses that say exactly the same thing as the OP. One thing I've noted is that hippiejon will post a "/ signed" in response to the things he agrees with. Perfect. No long winded tirades, no wearying repetitiveness, but a clear message that he agrees with what was said. Such a response would a) make the forums less of a drag to read and b) convey to other readers and PWE that the idea/thought/suggestion has followers.

No... there is ZERO reason to say the same thing as OP... However, if someone has something to add, they not only should, they MUST add to the OP if they agree, or disagree.

As long as it is a well founded, well presented pro/con argument, I see nothing wrong with telling that they agree with the original post.

It's kinda like with the KDF: If there aren't enough telling/showing that they have interest in development within a certain area, it's sure to never happen.


One last note. If you're really that unhappy with the game then why on Earth are you playing it? If the only thing you have to do with your life is engage in a game that you hate then you really need to take a good look at yourself and your life.

I enjoy the "company" of my fleet... I like having people from around the world to put different perspective on my opinions, just as I hope my answers here, have helped you put a different perspective on yours.
It does annoy me slightly, that it seems to me that you think people should not voice their concerns, and things that bothers them in the game... That sorta makes me want to disagree with you in general.

Just because someone disagrees with you, dosen't mean that their opinions are any less valid than yours.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 218
With the pursuit of profit comes things like customers voicing their disapproval. Why do you begrudge one and not the other? It's all normal. Hopefully complaints would help inspire more balancing.

When I complain about needing 1000 targ hearts it's because I find it unreasonable, not that I hate cryptic and can't find anything fun to do in the game. When I complain about dilithium cost being added to doff packs it's because it will inhibit most of what I do in the game, not because I think the game is rubbish. When I complain about C-store prices it's because I personally would spend more actual US currency if the prices were lower, where I can't justify spending $25 or more on one ship for one character. I get it though, they've decided it's more profitable to charge more because the few that buy will spend hundreds more than if we all just paid $25 total spread around in $5 increments.

If you care about the forums and its mood, provide alternative threads and opinions. I mean positive, happy things. This op was one of the more bleak I've come across.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 135
# 4
11-01-2012, 09:38 AM
These responses (well some parts of them) are why I stopped coming to the forums It's one thing to state a person's opinion with maturity. It's another for many on the forums who flip the hell out when they've read something they think is going to be quite bad for the game. There are people right now bi*ching about S7. Outside of a few pics and blog updates, and other than Tribble has anyone even played it.

It reminds me of the daytime boards where everyone blast the spoilers on what's coming up, but not only do they ALWAYS say that their show stinks, they still watch the show. Why would one spend an hour watching a show just to go on a board and blast everything they see?

Aye, we're all STO players, and truly far be it of me to try to tell anyone what they can say and not say, but I'm just stating my opinion. There are some players who just complain about everything, and nothing can be done about that.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 5
11-01-2012, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roman1229 View Post
These responses (well some parts of them) are why I stopped coming to the forums It's one thing to state a person's opinion with maturity. It's another for many on the forums who flip the hell out when they've read something they think is going to be quite bad for the game. There are people right now bi*ching about S7. Outside of a few pics and blog updates, and other than Tribble has anyone even played it.

It reminds me of the daytime boards where everyone blast the spoilers on what's coming up, but not only do they ALWAYS say that their show stinks, they still watch the show. Why would one spend an hour watching a show just to go on a board and blast everything they see?

Aye, we're all STO players, and truly far be it of me to try to tell anyone what they can say and not say, but I'm just stating my opinion. There are some players who just complain about everything, and nothing can be done about that.
You have to keep in mind that some of us play this game since its beta stage. And even from blogs and patch notes we can get the idea what's comming and how it will affect us.

One thing is to whine about childish and pointless subjects, another thing is to moan out of desperation because certain elements in game are neglected or ignored, or what's even worse they were lied about.

Truth is, even the Cryptic's CEO once said...

"Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it ? like my cellphone. The world?s biggest MMO isn?t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia ? microtransactions make me want to die."

http://www.mmogamer.com/02/25/2008/f...at-gdc08-recap

I think he is still alive and well and his depression about micro transactions is probably long forgotten

So forgive me, if I'm sceptical to the monetarization process of STO. Soon we will pay dilithium fee for sending e-mails or puting items into bank.

But even with that, what bothers me most is the constant ignoring of pressing issues, like underdevelopment of KDF faction, inflation of overpowered ships that replace each other in months and make the rest obsolete and the everlasting neglecting of pvp content.

Last edited by dalnar83; 11-01-2012 at 09:54 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 6
11-01-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
It does annoy me slightly, that it seems to me that you think people should not voice their concerns, and things that bothers them in the game... That sorta makes me want to disagree with you in general.

Just because someone disagrees with you, dosen't mean that their opinions are any less valid than yours.
Thank you for a detailed response. I didn't know how to quote your quotes within a quote, though, so...

I do agree that there should be more missions in the fleets, however I believe that starbases are a step in the right direction. Hopefully the first step out of many. Fleets will give the game more longevity than rehashed content or short story lines. Personally I think that the best longevity measure would be a playable race like Ferengi where you level in accordance to the profitability of your missions. That wouldn't just be adding contant, that would be adding a new dynamic to the game. If you were unprofitable too many times you could get demoted, like in the Next Gen episode The Battle...

I have no problems with anyone raising a concern, but it's when the exact same concern is raised ad nauseum that it becomes a pointless whinge-fest. ("They did this" post followed by "I hate it when they do this. It makes me mad" followed by "I really don't know why they did this" followed by the same old thing, on and on. Constructive feedback presented in the forums is waaaaay more likely to be heard and considered by the powers that be than pages of crying. IMHO, constructive threads are more likely to be read to the very end by more people. If you agree and have no further points to add, a /signed at the end works wonders.

You're right, bases are a grind, but without some form of grind doesn't an MMO really cease to be, unless more and more content is added by the week? I'd love for that to be a reality but really don't think it ever will. Can you imagine new content every week? Drooooool!!!

Now, the thing I liked most about your response was when you said that you won't get the Vesta. By exercising your right to NOT get the ship you are essentially sending a message to PWE that something they offered is not what you, as a player, want. If nobody buys it then they stop. If everyone buys it, they build on it. People must surely understand that PWE can track the profit made off every thing that has real world cost. They can track what works and what doesn't. Your making a choice helps shape the game. You adding to a 50 page thread where every entry says the same thing doesn't have the same weight.

(Out of curiosity, what is it you don't like about the new ship?)

Overall, I don't want people to cease voicing concerns. I just wish they were more adult about it. When the Vesta post went up on the main site I saw one person's post get removed due to the sheer vitriol of it. It's childish things like that that I think we, as a community, need to rise above.

Cheers!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 7
11-01-2012, 10:39 AM
You must have a very miserable life to complain about others complaints. And a very miserable one if your only interest in life is "profit".

FYI people can do things because they're passionate. And the best games i've ever played were made by passionnate people with just a paypal donate link at the bottom of the main page to pay for the servers.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 8
11-01-2012, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
You must have a very miserable life to complain about others complaints. And a very miserable one if your only interest in life is "profit".
And then the trolls came...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 9
11-01-2012, 11:42 AM
It's not trolling, if he adds a valid point to the discussion.

And I have to kinda agree with anazonda. Your entire initial post about "whiners" in this forum, comes off as whining in and of itself. So best bet would be to take your own advice, and quit whining about it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 36
# 10
11-01-2012, 11:43 AM
My problem is that most of the ships they release aren't really any better that the silver level ones. Yea they do something different, but really no dps upgrade or anything. All of the elite set items aren't really any better, just gives you some new abilites that really don't help you. This is an observation not a whine. I like the game, been here since beta, but some things they really need to fix. Fleet starbases are fine when it comes to grinding because it shows more and more incentive to continue. And the feeling of accomplishment when something finishes. But the ships, weapons and gear really need to be addressed. If something is elite, it should be elite to were the person feels elite and feels like they have accomplished something. I have the elite MK XII set on both my engineer and tactical and I dont feel any bit like an elite, I still get destroyed with ease, so whats the point in getting them? Just like tri-cobalts vs transphasics. Observations and opinions are people ways of showing things that are wrong with games. Some are happy with things being the way they are, but others aren't. I think somethings are awesome where somethings need to be addressed. More dev content would be nice, the DS9 content they had was awesome, but there needs to be more of it.
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