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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 143
What happened to movies having some kind of build up and savoring the graphical action scenes for special parts in the movies?

I loved the first two Alien movies (both for different reasons, they felt like two completely different movies to me) but I especially loved how the first one built a great atmosphere that really immersed you into their world. I was reluctant to watch these movies for years because I knew they took place in space but I also heard they were considered more of a horror franchise than sci-fi and honestly, as much as I love both genres I don't think they mesh too well together. To me sci-fi is to get you thinking about fantastical far fetched things, but on a believable level - Horror is to play on fears that already exists (getting murdered, stalked, all that crazy stuff). So I thought a good horror should take place in the modern world and play on things that could very well happen. So in other words, I didn't think I'd like the Alien movies in fear that there would be too many sci-fi elements for me to take the horror aspect of it very seriously.

But then I watched Prometheus a couple weeks ago after reading a review that it was a great sci-fi, but also a prequel to Alien. Although I personally loved the movie, I know a lot of other people who don't, but that's a little off my point. Anyways, it got me curious to watch Alien because I loved the world in Prometheus, I went about it in a sci-fi mindset but discovered it really does live up to its classic status that people gives it.

It gave a good amount of time, slowly building and forming this world - To me, what made it great is it really took the time to immerse the viewer into this world, didn't dive into any of the alien horror stuff. I got to know these characters, I got to now there personality, I was given the chance to really feel this world out and become fully immersed into it and then introduced to the alien. It's such a brilliant film, Aliens was an awesome movie for being an action adventure (that's how I perceived it anyways), but I liked Alien a little more because I've never seen a movie be able to pull that off.

So, what happened to great movies like this? Are the masses really too impatient to allow themselves to be immersed into a world, do they have to be dazzled with CGI effects weithin the first 5 minutes of a movie?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
# 2
10-22-2012, 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff484 View Post

So, what happened to great movies like this? Are the masses really too impatient to allow themselves to be immersed into a world, do they have to be dazzled with CGI effects weithin the first 5 minutes of a movie?
You gave yourself the correct answer ;-)

Look at the Transformer Movies . I enjoyed them (I LIKE good CGI )but compared to Alien 1 they were shallow.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 3
10-22-2012, 11:18 PM
In camera effects will always be better than cgi imo
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 299
# 4
10-22-2012, 11:23 PM
I really want to watch ALIEN after seeing Prometheus but its a bit too gory for me
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 5
10-22-2012, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim625 View Post
I really want to watch ALIEN after seeing Prometheus but its a bit too gory for me
Prometheus did not do the franchise any justice... it was a mindless popcorn flick. I hope that R. Scott dont decide to make a prequel to Blade runner
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 143
# 6
10-22-2012, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubblygumsworth View Post
Prometheus did not do the franchise any justice... it was a mindless popcorn flick. I hope that R. Scott dont decide to make a prequel to Blade runner
Of all the things I could describe Prometheus as "popcorn flick" isn't one of them lol. I actually liked the characters and a lot of the dialogue, I don't think it really got flashy til towards the end and I LOVED the surgery scene.

I don't think it's on par with the first two alien movies, but if Prometheus didn't do it justice then Alien 3 and Resurrection are catastrophes to the series. This is of course just my opinion, but I really do think that Prometheus was smarter than those two, especially Alien 3, that's my least favorite of the Alien movies.

Personally I thought it did justice for being a prequel and could have gone a LOT worse, could have gone better too but I think that's highly improbable.

Again, just my opinion
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 7
10-23-2012, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff484 View Post
Of all the things I could describe Prometheus as "popcorn flick" isn't one of them lol. I actually liked the characters and a lot of the dialogue, I don't think it really got flashy til towards the end and I LOVED the surgery scene.

I don't think it's on par with the first two alien movies, but if Prometheus didn't do it justice then Alien 3 and Resurrection are catastrophes to the series. This is of course just my opinion, but I really do think that Prometheus was smarter than those two, especially Alien 3, that's my least favorite of the Alien movies.

Personally I thought it did justice for being a prequel and could have gone a LOT worse, could have gone better too but I think that's highly improbable.

Again, just my opinion
I cant explain how I felt about the movie but this link to a review by maddox hits the nail on the head. I do have to say is that the art direction and the setting of the film was amazing, but the plot and character development was crap (kind of like Avatar... which was **** but looked pretty). Dragging the prequel out into more sequels was a bad idea too imo, they should have ended the film on LV-427 instead of LV223.

Films these days piss me off, I guess that is the whole reason why I'm in the middle of studying a film degree.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 143
# 8
10-23-2012, 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubblygumsworth View Post
I cant explain how I felt about the movie but this link to a review by maddox hits the nail on the head. I do have to say is that the art direction and the setting of the film was amazing, but the plot and character development was crap (kind of like Avatar... which was **** but looked pretty). Dragging the prequel out into more sequels was a bad idea too imo, they should have ended the film on LV-427 instead of LV223.

Films these days piss me off, I guess that is the whole reason why I'm in the middle of studying a film degree.
I do agree that this movie had a lot of flaws, especially considering the fact that it's only a semi-prequel to Alien. It's like Scott couldn't decide on whether or not it was an Alien prequel and I definitely agree with you on leaving it open to be a sequel. I just have a strong feeling that if it does get a sequel it's going to be pretty much the same thing beat for beat.

However I have very mixed feelings about the plot, I think dealing with the serious question of where we came from was executed nicely, however, it felt somewhat cliche. For example, I cannot decide if I hated the ending or loved it - I hated it for reasons that you stated, I don't think you can make a great sequel out of it, but I loved it because if it wasn't built to have a sequel then the ending is in my opinion brilliant. It deals with the frustration of not knowing exactly how we were made and we just go in circles with our origins, but whether or not it was meant to do that determines on exactly how good the ending was for me.

As for the characters, for the most part I agree but I did like the relationship of the two main characters. Personally, I really cared for that couple, they felt like a real couple to me and I think the part with him getting torched was great (in a way). I loved it because I thought it was an emotional scene, but I kind of disliked it at the same time because I didn't really fully understand why the dude walked right into the torch - It ALMOST didn't seem necessary, which almost makes the scene seem like it was put in there just for the sake of drama.

Overall I enjoyed it, but as dumb as it may sound I'm not exactly sure how much I like it, however, I will say this.

I thought it was a breather from most "sci-fi" movies we see nowadays. I felt that it did try to build on some characters, I thought it had great build up it didn't just rush right into lasers, robots fighting, and whatever else is shoved into most sci-fi films nowadays to dazzle the audience. It didn't feel obnoxious but it did have it's flaws, and a lot of them I'm not sure are flaws or just really smart - Unfortunately I think it was the former.

If anything though, like I said before, I liked it because it just didn't feel as obnoxious as most sci-fi movies do nowadays. I felt like it tried, maybe failed in some areas, but it was the first movie I saw in the past decade that I felt like was an actual sci-fi.

I also think it's important to point out that I seen this before any of the Alien movies, so I think our opinion may differ based on that. On that note I'll say that I think the movie might have been a lot better if it had no ties to the Alien franchise, I think it could have been a decent stand alone film. I also don't think it's comparable to Avatar, Avatar felt like it tried REALLY hard to just look great, I felt this movie not only looked great but had a great atmosphere to it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,085
# 9
10-23-2012, 01:02 AM
there are often way too many hurdles to get over in hollywood in terms of making a good movie. Alien/Aliens was great because of so many different elements including practical effects as well as character development. I'm not big on paul riser, but by god if Burke didn't bug the crap out of me in all the ways that made is awesome.


Alien 3 we already knew ripley and no one else was going to live long enough to care so no developing characters there, although from a script standpoint nobody knew what was happening, changes were constant even during filming and it was just a mess and it shows.


Alien resurrection was written by Joss Whedon (the guy who made the avengers film). The guy knows character development, love him or hate him, he has that concept down. The problem there is (as with a lot of movies) problems with producers or directors and such taking what was possibly a great script and wanting to add their own additions which eventually lead to a lot of bad calls (i.e. robin hood with Russell Crowe)


Personally while i agree with the statement that visually Prometheus was great it suffered from two things (purely speculation on my part)
A) Scott didn't want it to be an alien movie but was kind of pressured into it
B) he suffered from the same problem Lucas did where he's such a big deal in the franchise that no one pulls him to the side and tells him"no, that's stupid". Not in a mean way mind you, but both original works in the franchise were a collaboration of ideas, not a single person's toil. Without that objectivity things kind of turned for the worse and at some point they say "we've spent too much money, just ship it".


After so many years and so much success people tend to lose the things that made them great. Not always but usually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 143
# 10
10-23-2012, 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithshadow13 View Post
A) Scott didn't want it to be an alien movie but was kind of pressured into it
B) he suffered from the same problem Lucas did where he's such a big deal in the franchise that no one pulls him to the side and tells him"no, that's stupid". Not in a mean way mind you, but both original works in the franchise were a collaboration of ideas, not a single person's toil. Without that objectivity things kind of turned for the worse and at some point they say "we've spent too much money, just ship it".
All good points but I just want to say that it's a little difficult for me to agree with this part opf your post since Scott didn't write Prometheus. Not saying he didn't have full control of the content put into the film, but it does make me question exactly how much control he had compared to Lucas since he's not credited as a writer.
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