Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,157
# 101
11-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
particle gens have effected TBR kinetic damage since the skill tree change. i think it works well, graviton for push, particle for damage.
<s>That's not true.</s>

((EDITED... it's actually half-true... more to come in a sec))

Looks like the culprit is not that the power now benefits from Particle Generators, but that it now benefits twice as much as it previously did. We'll be reviewing this tomorrow to see if this particular change was intended.

Even so, this whole issue is really only a symptom of the larger compounded issue with the way damage boosts work: The fact that TacBuffs actually multiply skill bonus modifiers, instead of adding properly to the base magnitude of powers such as this one. TBR on its own, even with the doubled skill bonus, would have an exceedingly unlikely chance of dealing the magnitude of kinetic damage that's been mentioned in this thread without the assistance of Tactical Damage Buffs.
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Cryptic - Systems Design
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Kurland here...

Last edited by borticuscryptic; 11-06-2012 at 05:59 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 102
11-06-2012, 05:56 PM
lol was i the first to see your post befor you edited it?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 103
11-06-2012, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
That's not true.

((EDITED... it's actually half-true... more to come in a sec))
id like to see how thats even half not true


since the skill tree change, particle has effected all pure damage, flow has effected all drain, and grav has effected all hold and push as far as sci and some eng abilities go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Looks like the culprit is not that the power now benefits from Particle Generators, but that it now benefits twice as much as it previously did. We'll be reviewing this tomorrow to see if this particular change was intended.

Even so, this whole issue is really only a symptom of the larger compounded issue with the way damage boosts work: The fact that TacBuffs actually multiply skill bonus modifiers, instead of adding properly to the base magnitude of powers such as this one. TBR on its own, even with the doubled skill bonus, would have an exceedingly unlikely chance of dealing the magnitude of kinetic damage that's been mentioned in this thread without the assistance of Tactical Damage Buffs.
im 90% sure particle gen has effected TBR damage since the new skill tree, it has effected it for almost this entire year at least.

ya its the particle skill that is the problem, i figured its at least twice as effective as it should be.

the tac buffs are just doing their thing like always. stacking particle gen console are how you get the huge base damage, and then the tac skills stacked on top of that are what give you 10k per pulse.


reducing tac's ability to buff the raw damage sci, and some eng skills, to much would destroy any useful synergy tac has with them

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 11-06-2012 at 06:13 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 176
# 104
11-06-2012, 06:19 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Tac captain abilities the actual source of the problem?

Edit to elaborate: Rather than nerf the skill tree or change how TBR is affected by skills why not just remove AP:Alpha and GDF's ability to affect Sci and engineering Boff powers? As much as I like buffing GW will AP:alpha it's a slap in my sci officers face that my Tac in a KDF carrier does more damage with sci powers.

Last edited by razellis; 11-06-2012 at 06:27 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 105
11-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by razellis View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Tac captain abilities the actual source of the problem?

Edit to elaborate: Rather than nerf the skill tree or change how TBR is affected by skills why not just remove AP:Alpha and GDF's ability to affect Sci and engineering Boff powers?
the variable that changed and is causing the problem is the particle skill.

it was fine befor even tac buffed, the particle skill effecting it just needs to be brought back down to what it was before.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 106
11-06-2012, 08:25 PM
wanted to give no win another shot before this got fixed, got to wave 9 a few times thanks to this

but, i cant log on due to that launcher problem they are working on
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 107
11-06-2012, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Multiple players have now brought this thread to my attention via PMs. Unfortunately, the best I can tell you at this time is that we're investigating it. We know the root cause of the scaling issue, and why it only recently began being noticed (the Kinetic damage component of TBR did not previously benefit from Particle Generators, until a recent patch), but a solution has not yet been decided on.
Particle gens always affected it. I know it, because before I bought Nova a week ago I tested few builds including TBR ones and the dmg was increased by particle consoles but didn't skyrocket even with tac buffs. After the last patch however the particle gens provide much more dmg, thus allowing tac buffs to reach very high numbers.

Short version, something broke it last patch.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,166
# 108
11-06-2012, 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Particle gens always affected it. I know it, because before I bought Nova a week ago I tested few builds including TBR ones and the dmg was increased by particle consoles but didn't skyrocket even with tac buffs. After the last patch however the particle gens provide much more dmg, thus allowing tac buffs to reach very high numbers.
[...]
This may be a hint that they may have added an influence for Particle Generators at one place in the code and may not have noticed that such an influence was already in place somewhere else in the code.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 230
# 109
11-06-2012, 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Looks like the culprit is not that the power now benefits from Particle Generators, but that it now benefits twice as much as it previously did.
We told you that... I wrote that the damage now depends quadratically on the skill points.
Apparently you thought that TBR wasn't affected by PartGens and decided to multiply it with the skill modifier again and since you had overlooked that it was already being enhanced, you got to the quadratic scaling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Even so, this whole issue is really only a symptom of the larger compounded issue with the way damage boosts work: The fact that TacBuffs actually multiply skill bonus modifiers, instead of adding properly to the base magnitude of powers such as this one. TBR on its own, even with the doubled skill bonus, would have an exceedingly unlikely chance of dealing the magnitude of kinetic damage that's been mentioned in this thread without the assistance of Tactical Damage Buffs.
You know, there was a time when you had decided that tac damage boosts shouldn't affect sci abilities (FBP was the main cause for concern back then) and you even implemented a change that removed tac damage scaling from sci abilities. Then all of a sudden and without any patch notes this behaviour reversed.

But you are wrong about tac boosts being the main problem here. A fully specced TBR with the current quadratic scaling is much too strong even without tac buffs.

(Yes, we wouldn't have these 32k crits, but a hits in the 6-10k range would still be attainable and this is not a one-hit ability, it runs for several seconds and does multiple hits and ignores shields and thus could still destroy ships through shields without much effort.)

EDIT: I hope you also understand the difference between double and quadratic. Hopefully "double" was just a very informal way of addressing the fact that the skill went into the formula at two places instead of one. There is a significant difference in scaling between 2*x and x^2.

Last edited by fakehilbert; 11-06-2012 at 11:00 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 110
11-06-2012, 10:54 PM
Gotta love how the minute word about TBR being borked got out, every single game in the queues had at least one. Never change STO, lol

vids and guides and stuff

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