Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 121
11-07-2012, 09:01 AM
Hilbert
PaxOttomana
2012

We have binders full of fixes!

I'm Pax and I approve this message.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,121
# 122
11-07-2012, 09:21 AM
I really hope this thread results in a tac/sci fix, there is never a reason for a tactical captain to be better at science than sci captains.. but it is always the case now.

Nerfing tac in general is a bad idea, but limiting their buffs to weapons and weapon type consoles only makes sense.

My main is a tac and my sci character is mad about that.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,202
# 123
11-07-2012, 09:43 AM
Yeah scis need more nerfs, their ships and chars are so OP in space atm.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,525
# 124
11-07-2012, 11:43 AM
please note that only only TBR is effected, every other thing that is effected by partical is not 'buged'
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,450
# 125
11-07-2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fakehilbert View Post
It's a quadratic dependency! It is rather obvious that you are accidentally multiplying the skill modifier with a value that has already been multiplied by the skill modifier.

This cannot possibly be intentional, because it makes TBR scale with the opposite of "diminishing returns". It's "increasing returns" now! You have have a strictly monotonically increasing non-negative derivative. This is a bad thing.

For people who did not take calculus: This means that going from 200 skill to 201 gives you more additional damage than going from 100 to 101. Each additional skill point becomes more valuable the higher you get your total skill points.

You won't notice this behaviour much when you have only 0-50 skill points, but once you go over 100 it gets really obvious.
Fyi, last I checked the Tetryon weapon proc damage was like this. But, it's still meh so I figured it was intentional.

Edit: But, the +100 5 sec all sci abilities may change that for spikes though knowing you're going to proc in a 5 second window may be a bit much for 1 ship. All 5 ships using Tetryon @ over 300 points in Flow Caps may be another matter.

Last edited by p2wsucks; 11-07-2012 at 12:17 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 273
# 126
11-07-2012, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
I really hope this thread results in a tac/sci fix, there is never a reason for a tactical captain to be better at science than sci captains.. but it is always the case now.

Nerfing tac in general is a bad idea, but limiting their buffs to weapons and weapon type consoles only makes sense.

My main is a tac and my sci character is mad about that.
Sci/Sci is less likely is less likely generate a kill solo than Tac/Sci; far more likely to generate a kill with a wingmen.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 127
11-07-2012, 02:24 PM
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.

The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.

This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
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Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 128 another sci nerf coming?
11-07-2012, 02:33 PM
PartGen influencing damage to TBR is nothing new, only possibly the scaling of the damage. I've used TBR before only to push away ships/mines, never thought of using it for damage. Now i am maxed in PartGen but this comes at a cost: low shields and points that could have been distributed elsewhere.

It seems we are drawing to yet another sci nerf. Why not? This class should be removed at all, it anyway is not excelling at anything.

The old FlowCap based sci built for dmage (TachBeam and CPB) is useless, due to sci nerfs. SS (except for the possible bug that never affected me personally) is a joke. VM still stands as a bit decent skill and so does FBP. TBR is an useful skill but not solely, you need to couple it with others.

Saying that TBR on a ship with 6 turrets and 3 SBN doffs is ripping a ship apart is not a valid argument. Tactical captains have many more build options to do that. Anyway, 3 SBN doffs are not at all at anyone's hand. So, they are not a real concern in pvp. In tournaments, you can setup whatever rule you want.

Hull resists, HE, BFI/hazard doffs, engine battery, EM and so on. PH gives you immunity. Oh, you don't want to equip those? This is another story.

I say let's nerf VM, TBR and FBP. Sci captains should only cast average heals, ST and SS. Anyway a tac captain and even an engineer best a sci in a sci ship while a sci in any other ship class is also bested by any combo. Even better, remove the science altogether.

After all, tactical captains in escorts find it pure "skill" to destroy a ship in a 4 seconds burst. Pew-pew, no brains, no will and wits to adapt builds, this is how the game should be.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,525
# 129
11-07-2012, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.

The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.

This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
then theres still some time left to try to repulser no win to death! got to wave 9 a few times thanks to this oversight

Quote:
Originally Posted by cichicichi View Post
Saying that TBR on a ship with 6 turrets and 3 SBN doffs is ripping a ship apart is not a valid argument. Tactical captains have many more build options to do that. Anyway, 3 SBN doffs are not at all at anyone's hand. So, they are not a real concern in pvp. In tournaments, you can setup whatever rule you want.
the only possible way you could think that is if you have no experience with how bad TBR can be in practice right now. with a single tac buffed activation of TBR3, i can kill a ship 2 times over with at least 1 crit that i will get, through its shields and theres nothing my opponent can do about it. there is no better way for a tactical captain to kill right now.

i can get TBR 1 on an escort with room for only 2 particle consoles to deal 5-6k damage a pulse, directly to hull, its not just sci ships doing this.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 11-07-2012 at 02:41 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,073
# 130
11-07-2012, 02:51 PM
It's still funny to look at the "damage" for TB sitting there next to TBR... an AoE that does over 30x the damage of the single target ability.
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