Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,665
Yeah, I know-they would never build it for the game, but...

Haj Retrofit

4 weapons forward
2 Weapons aft

22,500 Hull

Shield Mult: .8

Commander Universal
LTC Universal
LTC Universal
LT Universal

3 Science consoles
4 Engineering Consoles
3 Tactical Consoles

Turn Rate; 20 degrees/second

z-store console: Aerobatic Console (Usable only on fighters and Birds of Prey) +30 Turn rate 15 seconds/2 minute cooldown (Stackable effect with Omega shield, console, and Attack Pattern bonuses)

Battlecloak as standard

(and the Fleet version would have 5 eng. consoles!)

Price: 2500 Zen


I think people would buy this, and more important, it would provide decent competition from a very different direction to the rickockulously OP Fleet Defiant and upcoming Vesta cheezefests-like all KDF ships, it's crap if you don't know how to fly it, and awesome if you do.

Cryptic cold save massive amounts of development money by reusing the "Haj" skin from the L40 Hegh'ta, we have a precedent for 5 consoles on a ship (Fleet Defiant), the limited warload (2 aft weapons, 4 forward, 3 tac consoles) keeps it out of DIRECT competition with cheesetastic designs on the Fed side-i.e. you actually have to WORK to get the high DPS/killshots, unlike FedScorts, who pretty much get it for free if the owner's even HALF awake...

but the maneuverability boost or durability boost makes it an effective match for OTHER T5 SHIPS (without being a bleeding nother cruiser!!)

Last edited by patrickngo; 11-03-2012 at 04:28 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 2
11-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Not worth 25 bucks to me, not even for an account-wide ship. All you need to boost maneuverability is pattern Omega, Evasive Maneuvers, and the Omega shield. BoP doesn't need some special console for it.

Now, a ship like the Fleet Hoh'sus. . .I'd pay 20 bucks for it if it were a C-store ship. But it's not, so I'm not getting it. I grind all my Zen, and 2k zen (or however much I'd have to shell out in EC for a console off the exchange) isn't worth the cost to me. Besides, someone else put in the Zen at that point. . .and I'd prefer to not subsidize this Fleet ship BS unless it's for a truly worthy ship.

A B'rel retrofit with a boost to science powers and a 4th science console might be a worthy C-store addition as well, with a discount for players who already have the regular B'rel retro.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,665
# 3
11-04-2012, 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
Not worth 25 bucks to me, not even for an account-wide ship. All you need to boost maneuverability is pattern Omega, Evasive Maneuvers, and the Omega shield. BoP doesn't need some special console for it.

Now, a ship like the Fleet Hoh'sus. . .I'd pay 20 bucks for it if it were a C-store ship. But it's not, so I'm not getting it. I grind all my Zen, and 2k zen (or however much I'd have to shell out in EC for a console off the exchange) isn't worth the cost to me. Besides, someone else put in the Zen at that point. . .and I'd prefer to not subsidize this Fleet ship BS unless it's for a truly worthy ship.

A B'rel retrofit with a boost to science powers and a 4th science console might be a worthy C-store addition as well, with a discount for players who already have the regular B'rel retro.
Honestly I was only thinking of "a console" in the sense that eVERY c-store ship has one, so it wouldn't matter what kind-except that it should be limited, and not an obvious advantage that the Feds would immediately whine about not having.

The idea behind the extra engineering console slot and full ten consoles, is that there is no way in HELL they're going to give us a ship like the Bugship or Fleet Defiant with 5 tac consoles, and while sci powers have been KIND OF nerfed, they're seen as powerful too-but maybe the Twinks from Terra wouldn't notice a KDF BoP coming out with 4 or 5 Engineering consoles-and with the right stack THERE, it might be possible to take a well-set-up Bugship or Twink Defiant by manueverability (turn inside his radius, keep him "T'ed" long enough for 4 DHC's, 2 Turrets and 3 tac consoles for example) because you can turn-and-burn with him...and still take a few hits between cloaks.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,704
# 4
11-05-2012, 05:40 PM
I would take a K'Vort BOP Cruiser. Or what ever how they make it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,697
# 5
11-05-2012, 08:49 PM
I'm more interested in something like a retrofit negh'var with more tactical than engineering or atleast a universal so you can make it fit your playing style since we don't have a lot of Heavy Battle Cruiser choices.

I love bops but pretty much anything you can think of with bops we have available now and bops are a touchy subject with feds because they would rather us not have them and make defiants what they are now.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 189
# 6
11-05-2012, 11:14 PM
I'd be happy if they gave the T5 BoP it's 3rd rear weapon slot that it had in the beginning but was removed after all the Fed tears over how OP the BoP was...
Lord Krueg
KBF CO
We are the Dead
join date Aug 2008
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,665
# 7
11-05-2012, 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
I'm more interested in something like a retrofit negh'var with more tactical than engineering or atleast a universal so you can make it fit your playing style since we don't have a lot of Heavy Battle Cruiser choices.

I love bops but pretty much anything you can think of with bops we have available now and bops are a touchy subject with feds because they would rather us not have them and make defiants what they are now.
See, here's where playstyle differences really come in-for ME, Heavy Cruisers are a source of frustration to operate, and even the 1000 day Destroyer is irritating to use due to what is, for me, an atrocity of a turnrate and too much mass (Inertia) for the kind of manuevering I like to use. an STF that is easy and fun for me in a BoP, even when things are going wrong, becomes an exercise in "Dear god can we get this over with???" in a Cruiser-of any kind.


And I suspect there are a lot of other people like me, even in the KDF faction. Certainly the huge number of Bugship operators out there (in spite of the estimated cost in real dollars to get the Bugship thanks to its distribution method) aren't looking for yet-another-slow-tanky-build.

insofar as I am concerned, we're SWIMMING in heavy cruisers-from Vor'cha to Bortasque, but the fun is in driving ships like the Hegh'ta, Hoh'sus (in spite of the gag-me visuals), B'rel, Norgh, Ki'tang...because they move, you can turn with them, when they accellerate it doesn't look like a city bus trying to drag race, when you kill the power they STOP...

I tried the Bortasque on Tribble-all three variants, and found it utterly NOT something I would spend real money to have. It's not a bad ship, but it's...frustrating. I've tried Vor'chas, they are ALSO frustrating, hell, even RAPTORS are frustrating to drive-even when you strip everything from engineering but maneuvering consoles, they are still just a pain in the ass to get the nose pointed where you need it pointed...but with very little effort, I can keep the nose of a BoP pointed at MOST enemy, turn inside his arc, "T" him, etc. etc. and with KHG 3-piece I can actually keep most AI driven opposition missing me enough to make up for not having huge hull and shield numbers or numerous science powers.

which I can not do, in a big, tanky, slow, clumsy cruiser.


Which is why I titled this thread with the word "Fantasies..." a ten-console BoP with the extra in engineering means either a tougher BoP, or an even quicker and more nimble BoP-i.e. playing to the type's strengths without treading too heavily on the toes of Escorts and Raptors, or infringing on Cruiser turf, or letting it go that the KDF has no true science ships of their own design (preserving factional differences, see??)

at root is the idea of a BoP that retains "Ordinary Bird of Prey Damage" but can tangle with Starfleet's bugship-killer Fleet Defiant, or play hard against a Bugship given equal players-Starfleet gets to have superior raw firepower with more guns and more weps consoles, but to deliver said firepower, they have to be able to line up the shot-ditto the Bugship (for those not knowing what a Bugship is, look at the Jem'Hadar ship-that's a "Bugship" and they're seriously OP with the ability to tank like a cruiser, turn like a fighter/shuttle and DPS like a tricked out escort. Fleet Defiant's pretty much the same thing in a Defiant costume...).

My 'fantasy' proposal relies on existing in-game artwork (The Haj skin for the Hegh'ta) and, based on the Fleet Hoh'sus, we KNOW you can have ten consoles on a Bird of Prey without breaking the game. I'm just rearranging it slightly for this, to provide a distinctive, yet useful combination capable of competing without copying.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,697
# 8
11-06-2012, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
See, here's where playstyle differences really come in-for ME, Heavy Cruisers are a source of frustration to operate, and even the 1000 day Destroyer is irritating to use due to what is, for me, an atrocity of a turnrate and too much mass (Inertia) for the kind of manuevering I like to use. an STF that is easy and fun for me in a BoP, even when things are going wrong, becomes an exercise in "Dear god can we get this over with???" in a Cruiser-of any kind.


And I suspect there are a lot of other people like me, even in the KDF faction. Certainly the huge number of Bugship operators out there (in spite of the estimated cost in real dollars to get the Bugship thanks to its distribution method) aren't looking for yet-another-slow-tanky-build.

insofar as I am concerned, we're SWIMMING in heavy cruisers-from Vor'cha to Bortasque, but the fun is in driving ships like the Hegh'ta, Hoh'sus (in spite of the gag-me visuals), B'rel, Norgh, Ki'tang...because they move, you can turn with them, when they accellerate it doesn't look like a city bus trying to drag race, when you kill the power they STOP...

I tried the Bortasque on Tribble-all three variants, and found it utterly NOT something I would spend real money to have. It's not a bad ship, but it's...frustrating. I've tried Vor'chas, they are ALSO frustrating, hell, even RAPTORS are frustrating to drive-even when you strip everything from engineering but maneuvering consoles, they are still just a pain in the ass to get the nose pointed where you need it pointed...but with very little effort, I can keep the nose of a BoP pointed at MOST enemy, turn inside his arc, "T" him, etc. etc. and with KHG 3-piece I can actually keep most AI driven opposition missing me enough to make up for not having huge hull and shield numbers or numerous science powers.

which I can not do, in a big, tanky, slow, clumsy cruiser.


Which is why I titled this thread with the word "Fantasies..." a ten-console BoP with the extra in engineering means either a tougher BoP, or an even quicker and more nimble BoP-i.e. playing to the type's strengths without treading too heavily on the toes of Escorts and Raptors, or infringing on Cruiser turf, or letting it go that the KDF has no true science ships of their own design (preserving factional differences, see??)

at root is the idea of a BoP that retains "Ordinary Bird of Prey Damage" but can tangle with Starfleet's bugship-killer Fleet Defiant, or play hard against a Bugship given equal players-Starfleet gets to have superior raw firepower with more guns and more weps consoles, but to deliver said firepower, they have to be able to line up the shot-ditto the Bugship (for those not knowing what a Bugship is, look at the Jem'Hadar ship-that's a "Bugship" and they're seriously OP with the ability to tank like a cruiser, turn like a fighter/shuttle and DPS like a tricked out escort. Fleet Defiant's pretty much the same thing in a Defiant costume...).

My 'fantasy' proposal relies on existing in-game artwork (The Haj skin for the Hegh'ta) and, based on the Fleet Hoh'sus, we KNOW you can have ten consoles on a Bird of Prey without breaking the game. I'm just rearranging it slightly for this, to provide a distinctive, yet useful combination capable of competing without copying.
Welp its bed time for me but just add me or send tell see if I am on just take the 001 off... I can show you some tricks to make it easy to fly something like a vor'cha or negh'var with ease... The fleet negh'var has really awesome setup its just I've always been more of a fan of the Negh'var myself but I got some tricks where you can spin them around on a dime.

I love bops and heavy battle cruisers its just that to me the bop itself they can make different costumes for it but its kind of bouncing a ball inside a really small box to keep a bop a bop but making changes where people may choose one over the other.

The easiest thing to turn with besides a bop is the Negh'Var tho... I've tried many ways to get the bortasqu' to be something I'd wanna play all the time but it just has a few finger breaking advantages... It just isn't something you want imo unless you are into trying to play a hybrid beam cannon broadsiding method. Overall though not everyone likes the HBC's like I do but... I do know ways to atleast make the vorcha and negh'var fun to play I'd just like some more *teeth" with a negh'var when I fly it... just doesn't feel right offensively although I've pretty much maximized what I can do with it on that front.
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