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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 41
11-07-2012, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
Weapons power is an exception, it's another thing that's a bit... odd.

The baseline that default weapon damage tooltips (the ones you get when you're not a space map) are calculated from is 50 weapons energy. And given what we know about percentage-based damage buffs, you'd expect that every point in weapons energy you have over 50 would grant you an extra 2% Base Energy Weapon DPS, additively.

However it's not that simple. You can see weapons power stacking non-additively with certain additive buffs... and if it's drained to zero, you will do no energy damage at all (not "-100% base damage", which would mean you'd still do some damage as long as you had a few additive buffs active).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
So it does not increase the actual weapon damage but instead acts as an independent proc that is not effected by anything? WHY!!!!!!!!

I stand corrected

Actually though in that case even though I'm going to guess that it doesn't does that mean it ignores enemy resistances perhaps? I doubt it but that would be kinda nice.

*edit extra info*
Just tested with my tac. When using APA, Go Down Fighting, and Tac Fleet combined a 104.5% total damage increase for me, the fleet weapon went from 1438.8 DPV to 2859 a 98.1% increase whereas my borg went from 1374.8 to 2850 or a 107% increase.

My simple conclusions from that are pretty simple but please let me know if I goofed Maelwyns as this was a quick n dirty test.

1) [Dmg] Mod does indeed not scale properly with other modifiers. I consider this a bug though personally as I cannot fathom a single reason why that would be the desired behavior I hope Bort will chime in on this.
2) The +% damage boosts are actually a multiplier not added to the base damage like skill/consoles, but they do stack additively with themselves. Those being the Tac Captains abilities along with possibly APO.

So taking that all into consideration, would it be accurate to say that a MK XII [CrtH]x3 or [CrtD]x3 would be better than [DMG]x3 (leaving out the fleet weapons having a 4th modifier, as this thread is aimed primarily at the [DMG] mod itself and how it's abundantly found on endgame weapons).

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 42
11-07-2012, 01:56 PM
I've just done some testing of my own with non dmg weapons, (borg stuff), and various ta abilities.

APA, APO, GDF all multiply the post weapons power + console damage by their modifiers, if several are active together then the % are added together then the multiplier is applied.

Tactical fleet is not working as expected and neithier are consles. With or without consles the Tac fleet boost was only adding 17%. I'd have to do some very careful testing to figure out what's happening here.

Consoles where boosting damage by 33%, total consle bonus was 101% and this was at 75 weapons power. This makes no sense, so again i'm goig to have to do more testing, but my gut says that the bonus damage from consles is calculated without skill modifiers factored in.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,072
# 43
11-07-2012, 02:21 PM
@ussultimatum: Without a doubt they would be. Granted it is still a very minor difference likely around 1% total difference. But they might even beat out fleet weapons I will do the math laters.

@Carl: Consoles are working perfectly fine I have recently tested them. They add a flat amount to base damage and stack additively with skill modifiers, they do not multiply anything at all but they can be multiplied by other things.

Example: Weapon does 100 DPV. The two damage boosting skills are maxed which would add 50% or 50 DPV. A console we will say is adding 30 DPV each and you have two. So the DPV would be 100+50+30 for a total of 180 DPV. Then you add in the weapon power modifier lets say your gaining 50% boost it goes from 180 DPV to 270 DPV. These numbers are all made up just to illustrate the example and it can get much more complicated.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 44
11-07-2012, 03:02 PM
Consles add %'s Bareel, if you really had tested them recently you would know this.

Thje problem is their percentages do not make sense. a set of consles with a grand total of +101% modifier, even working off base damage should at 75 weapons power be increasing total damage output by 66%. They do not on my toons siege destroyer, they increae by only 33%. this implies that the wepaons are actually working under a 3x modifier on base damage. So unless wepaons power scaling is much more drastic than we've previouslly belived, (i'm confident it's not), somthing else is at work here. They are not working in the same way as wepaons power OR Tac abilities. Never mind whatever Tac fleet is doing.

I haven't had chance to test how consles interact with weapons power yet though, but the way it's claimed verywhere else is that they add to the % modifier of weapons power, not weapons power multiplying by them.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,072
# 45
11-07-2012, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Consles add %'s Bareel, if you really had tested them recently you would know this.

Thje problem is their percentages do not make sense. a set of consles with a grand total of +101% modifier, even working off base damage should at 75 weapons power be increasing total damage output by 66%. They do not on my toons siege destroyer, they increae by only 33%. this implies that the wepaons are actually working under a 3x modifier on base damage. So unless wepaons power scaling is much more drastic than we've previouslly belived, (i'm confident it's not), somthing else is at work here. They are not working in the same way as wepaons power OR Tac abilities. Never mind whatever Tac fleet is doing.

I haven't had chance to test how consles interact with weapons power yet though, but the way it's claimed verywhere else is that they add to the % modifier of weapons power, not weapons power multiplying by them.
The bonus they provide (last I checked) was not modified by weapon rank or anything like that, it was instead a flat number based on weapon type and the console only. Weapon power and abilities will modify their bonus though.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 46
11-07-2012, 04:19 PM
I'm in the middile opf testing the number now but i can confirm that yes, the apply their benefit to the damage value that is there before weapon skill modifiers. Though even then their magnitude is, (to within the margin of error given the low magnitude figures), only half what ti should be, (a +26.2% consle was applying only a +12.7% boost in reality, i'm investigating still though as i type).

To add to that. The bonus remains constant, (in percentile terms)m at any weapons power of 50 or above, indicating the bonus scales upwards wiith weapons power. But at weapons power settign below 50 it drops of in percentage terms. At 35 weapons power, (as low as i could go due to inatte benefit), it was granting only a 10% bonus from a 26.2% console.

Tactical Fleet si officolly borked. it's adding 17.5% instead of 30% irrespective of skills or consoles. The percentage remains constant regardless of weapons power.


Now to see what skills do . Ok totla magnitude of effect if all skills ar at 9 ranks is 48.7%, bearing in mind base 9 ranks is 99 skill points this suggests that the total cumalative bonus is 50% at 100 points, due to certain factors this is impossibbel to verify, but highly probable. And i've confirmed it. The consle bonus, (in adittion to being half magnitude it should be), is applied before skill effects and is itself unaffected by skill's. This means a Fleet Defiant with 5 MKXIII purples will only see a grand total of a +50% boost to damae at any weapon power of 50 or more, and less than this at weapons power setting below 50.

Last edited by carl103; 11-07-2012 at 04:55 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 568
# 47
11-08-2012, 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carl103 View Post
Now to see what skills do . Ok totla magnitude of effect if all skills ar at 9 ranks is 48.7%, bearing in mind base 9 ranks is 99 skill points this suggests that the total cumalative bonus is 50% at 100 points, due to certain factors this is impossibbel to verify, but highly probable. And i've confirmed it.
http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skil...%20Effects.htm

For other effects, etc. check this thread.
There's also a whole load more knocking about concerning the underlying maths and modifiers.

[ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]

Last edited by maelwy5; 11-08-2012 at 02:30 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,072
# 48
11-08-2012, 07:26 AM
Ok just started doing testing on how the weapons work and I'm going to have to challenge the way the [Dmg] modfier is thought to work. It IS scaling with weapon power and attack pattern omega.

The Toon: Level 50, no accolades effecting, no skills effecting.

The Weapons: Two Blue Mk X tetryon beam arrays, one with [CritH] x2, one [Dmg] x2

Results
@50 Weapons Power, all listed DPV, consoles blue Mk XIs

[CritH]x2: @0 Consoles 205, @2 Consoles 257.5 (+52.5), @Omega 225.5 (+20.5), @100 power 410 (double base)

[Dmg]x2: @0 Consoles 215, @2 Consoles 267.5 (+52.5), @Omega 236.5 (+21.5), @100 power 430 double base)

Conclusion
Bonus damage granted by [Dmg] Modifier does infact scale with weapon power and APO. I would assume it will also scale with crit and will test latter. Also consoles add a FLAT AMOUNT ignoring weapon grade and quality only taking into account the weapon type like beam array, cannon, etc. But more testing is needed.
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