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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,165
# 11
11-05-2012, 12:03 PM
The real problem as I see it is that Cruisers are not high-priority targets in Escort-dominated PvP... They're too slow and their ability to protect other ships is very limited.

If Cruisers could more effectively protect other ships within their sphere of influence, then their threat level would go up, they would become more high-priority targets, and the ability to resist damage would be more critical.

THAT's what Cruisers should be designed and balanced around.

The only Engineering ability I can think of that can protect multiple ships is Extend Shields and it's not Cruiser-specific.

I think Cruisers need a specific, innate ability to extend some kind of protection to other ships. Something to clarify and improve their intended role in the game other than being damage sponges.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 12
11-05-2012, 12:20 PM
Placates are bad enough and about to get worse. A tanking ability is not something I'd like to see in PvP. Plus, how would it work with the placate? I activate my tank ability so you can't attack anybody but me, then the S7 reputation bonus placate on crit activates so you can't attack me either. It's a bit complicated and I'm not convinced it's what Engi's need.

Make MW and RSF usable on allies, give it 6 months to settle, then see if Engi's still need a tweak.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
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# 13
11-05-2012, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
Placates are bad enough and about to get worse. A tanking ability is not something I'd like to see in PvP. Plus, how would it work with the placate? I activate my tank ability so you can't attack anybody but me, then the S7 reputation bonus placate on crit activates so you can't attack me either. It's a bit complicated and I'm not convinced it's what Engi's need.

Make MW and RSF usable on allies, give it 6 months to settle, then see if Engi's still need a tweak.
I'll say what I said in the other thread:

Make EPS_PT a drain field instead of a ST EPS buff.
Make NI an AoE drain resist buff instead of a ST drain buff.
Make MW launch a support platform that launches drones.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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# 14
11-05-2012, 01:04 PM
Make it so a Cruiser can interpose itself into the fire against another ship and "Tank" in such a manner as to become a LOS block.

No special taunts needed that break gameplay, No placates needed that break gameplay
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
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# 15
11-05-2012, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Make it so a Cruiser can interpose itself into the fire against another ship and "Tank" in such a manner as to become a LOS block.

No special taunts needed that break gameplay, No placates needed that break gameplay
Positional tanking would be much easier on the ground than in space. Besides, what you describe - doesn't that sound more like some sort of sensor dampening field that a Sci ship might use - "cloaking" what's on the other side of it?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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# 16
11-05-2012, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Positional tanking would be much easier on the ground than in space. Besides, what you describe - doesn't that sound more like some sort of sensor dampening field that a Sci ship might use - "cloaking" what's on the other side of it?
I was thinking literally allow the Cruisers to be able to block LOS and absorb incomming fire to help protect other vessels as a "living shield"
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,556
# 17
11-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I was thinking literally allow the Cruisers to be able to block LOS and absorb incomming fire to help protect other vessels as a "living shield"
Cruisers are too slow to "shield" things in that sense on a 3D map. We also have the issue that - generally - there's no collision detection on things outside of their intended targets.

Speaking of the shield aspect though, it's one of the things I mentioned in an older one of these threads. Eng can drop out a Cover Shield on the ground... in Space though - it's a C-Store item. Definitely think that should have been an Eng innate or an Eng Space BOFF ability.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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# 18
11-05-2012, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Cruisers are too slow to "shield" things in that sense on a 3D map. We also have the issue that - generally - there's no collision detection on things outside of their intended targets.

Speaking of the shield aspect though, it's one of the things I mentioned in an older one of these threads. Eng can drop out a Cover Shield on the ground... in Space though - it's a C-Store item. Definitely think that should have been an Eng innate or an Eng Space BOFF ability.
I always figured that EXS was the space version of a cover shield.

The ideas of a Taunt seem unfair as it takes the play out of being a player by making me do soemthing I would not against my will, change targets.

The idea of placate is unreasonable since the game already has Placate abilities in play, mainly the AMS, SS and JS and soon to be adapted KHG shield.

The Cruiser may just have to settle on the role of "Tank" meaning hard to kill as oppossed to "living shield that draws all agro"
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,556
# 19
11-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
The Cruiser may just have to settle on the role of "Tank" meaning hard to kill as oppossed to "living shield that draws all agro"
I think this points more to a healing problem than anything else, eh?

If one pictures a 1v1 with the following:

Low Damage - High Tank vs High Damage - Low Tank

One could easily say that each has a 50-50 chance of winning that battle. The damage and tank would balance out against each other. The LD-HT guy might survive long enough to kill the HD-LT guy or the HD-LT guy might kill the LD-HT guy before dying himself.

When you add in healing based around high damage - the low damage guy has become useless. The high damage guys might squeak in that attack that kills the target. The low damage guys are not going to do that.

Have to wonder if they looked at balancing it in that way - just the HD-LT vs LD-HT - while ignoring the effects healing would have on that fight.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Empire Veteran
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Posts: 6,764
# 20
11-05-2012, 02:42 PM
Well,is it not true that damage rose to keep up with healing?

A upward spiral of ever increasing imbalance thats at the base of all the imbalance brought by consoles,doffs,equipment sets,special ships,etc.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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