Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
(This is a long post btw.)



Down in the Tribble section, a Dev, Branflakes I believe, said that they are discussing possible changes to the modifiers we have currently. I thought about posting this down there, but felt it was a good enough idea to post on it's own.

DMG, as it stands, is generally considered by most, to be the worst modifier in space (and not that good in ground a lot of the time). Acc allows things to hit more often (and usually the best for PvP), CrtH of course improves the chance to land a critical hit (generally the best in PvE scenarios), and CrtD is pretty much the, 'if you have no other choices, at least get CrtD', since it adds more damage when something does critical.

Dmg though...just adds a tiny amount of damage, with little other gain.

Here is my proposal:

Make Dmg, or rather, each damage modifier, act as an extra hit. The same energy type (or kinetic, if applicable), would be applied for each extra Dmg modifier.

(as a note, all the numbers I am about to post are purely for example purposes, and not really meant for a true 'in-game scenario' or anything. In other words, totally made up for the purpose of this explanation)

So...take a Dual Heavy Cannon, with the energy type of X. So let's say this base damage of the DHC is...200 (before modifiers, weapon power, etc). In turn, this DHC has...Acc, and DmgX2.

The acc, as it stands now, wouldn't change, however, the two Dmg modifiers, would add an extra, small hit, still of energy type X. Say...25 damage each, at base. These extra hits would be calculated same as the normal shot, with modifiers and weapons power, along with any other appropriate buffs.

So...the DHC fires (again let's just go with 200 damage), and hits for 200, than the extra hits would happen at the exact same time, for 25 each, for a total of 250 now per cannon shot, if it didn't miss or get a critical. Now the extra shots accuracy would be taken from the main shot, so if it misses, they all miss.

These aren't procs though, like Phasers knocking off a subsystem, it'd hit with the normal damage, or it'll miss along with the normal damage, no real middle ground. In turn, they would not add extra proc chances.

If that couldn't be coded easily, than yes, each individual small extra bit of damage could be calculated separately for acc. Again, no extra proc chances, just only extra damage.

Here is a real example of how it could make something effective:

Quad Phaser/Disruptor Cannons. Useful to level with, but generally not as useful outside of that. If my idea was put in, those would gain four extra, small hits of 25 at the minimum, allowing them to hit VERY hard if buffed considerably.

Torpedoes would work the same way. If a Torpedo did 2,000 damage, the Dmg modifier might add...250 damage, so if it had DmgX3, that could be an extra 750 damage, before buffs.

Mines, same thing, but because of their 'spammy' nature, the bonus would be smaller per mine to better balance them out, say 75 damage per mine as an example.



What would this mean for gameplay?

To start, it would affect PvP...well, I'm not entirely sure. I'm still a bit new to it, so a more major PvPer would have a better idea on this. I might make a post in the PvP forums, see what they might think.

However, it'd be a big, and useful change for PvE though. Adding extra hits for the Dmg modifier would make beam arrays and single cannons a greater usage, because of the huge DPS fest most end-game content is.

Tacs in escorts would still be DPS kings, but cruisers would have a harder punch to them, if they added a guaranteed 75+ (again, only example numbers) damage with each shot. Cruisers and sci ships wouldn't always feel completely 'left behind' in damage, without putting them on par with a tac.

In turn, DmgX3 or even at least X2 weapons would be much more useful, the most obvious ones being the Advanced (and eventually Elite) Fleet Space weapons.



So, thoughts, comments, questions, ideas?

Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 2
11-05-2012, 11:24 PM
I like it...i've never noticed any thing major with the current modifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 3
11-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynder2012 View Post
I like it...i've never noticed any thing major with the current modifier.
Amen, as it stands, Dmg is little more than a laughable means of making item rarity go up more than anything else right now.

I forgot to mention that I feel this really helps balance out the ideas of:

Sustained vs spike vs hit

Hit being accuracy, mostly used for PvP more than anything else, so you can...well, hit your target.

Spike is pretty simple, things like CRF, Spinal Phaser Lance, etc etc etc. It's everywhere in the game.

Sustained though is hurting the most IMO. The new Dmg modifier would help out the Spike damage due to extra hits with every shot fired, true, but it'd make sustained DPS a much much more effective means of truly dealing damage, particularly in the PvE endgame.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 4
11-07-2012, 12:21 AM
In PvP, the necessity of [Acc] really depends on who you're playing against and your own loadout. Against four snoozers and a carrier or something, sure, you can do without it. But part of the reason it's so prized is that its effectiveness never changes; [Acc] is always the best scaling stat on the overwhelming majority of weapons/situations because of the way accuracy overflow works.

As far as your idea goes, though, am I missing something or how is it different to the way [Dmg] works now? Obviously your numbers are much stronger, but wouldn't the law of averages just end up coming to the same damage totals as if you were firing "half" as many shots with higher base damages?

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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 5
11-07-2012, 12:25 AM
The problem of ACC generally is, that the Elusive trait is too strong.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 6
11-07-2012, 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmerless View Post
In PvP, the necessity of [Acc] really depends on who you're playing against and your own loadout. Against four snoozers and a carrier or something, sure, you can do without it. But part of the reason it's so prized is that its effectiveness never changes; [Acc] is always the best scaling stat on the overwhelming majority of weapons/situations because of the way accuracy overflow works.

As far as your idea goes, though, am I missing something or how is it different to the way [Dmg] works now? Obviously your numbers are much stronger, but wouldn't the law of averages just end up coming to the same damage totals as if you were firing "half" as many shots with higher base damages?
You have a point, unless it's really zipping, defense-heavy ships, acc doesn't mean as much, but generally, in a good PvP match, someone isn't just sitting there, well, most of the time.

Well the Dmg modifier now adds...5 DPS I think for each one, is that correct? I can't remember exactly, but it's very very little and barely affects anything. In PvP, of course most of these numbers would just be shrugged off, and hardly even worth the bleed-through damage, or so I feel at least.

Even in PvE, the big baddies would barely feel it, but it would be consistent, constant damage with each hit. Maybe different weapons would be affected by this Dmg modifier differently, like perhaps Beam Arrays would get a larger boost from it, to better keep up with escorts, but DHCs would gain a lesser effect, so that they wouldn't be doing insane (or more insane) amounts of damage.

That isn't to make all weapons completely equal across the board or anything, far from it, but some weapons would gain a boost where they could be lacking severely in the game as it is today.

Now of course, if they just boosted Dmg to be worthwhile enough to want, my idea is pretty much for naught, but I just wanted to put out an idea that isn't just 'buffing the Dmg modifier' and give a much more different take.

Though my idea wouldn't work well on the ground, since you're usually dealing with small numbers of health and shields (even with bosses, it's not that much compared to what can be done already with a good team), as compared with the massive numbers in space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
The problem of ACC generally is, that the Elusive trait is too strong.
True indeed. You can only get so much Acc most of the time, but plenty of defense.

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