Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 729
I'm trying to compare the stats and build options between the two sets of variants... and am slowly coming under the impression (this is to be tested) that the vesta looks to be the class to topple the Oddy (in all honesty, not too hard to topple the space whale).

I typically fly the oddy as a primary (et3 rather than 2 tt) healboat in premades. I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are on a build by build comparison of the ships (dps oddy vs dps vesta, sci oddy vs sci vesta, healer oddy vs healer vesta). I hope I don't sound too much like a foreboding doomsayer, but overrall methinks the vesta would top out in all categories for its base turnrate/maneuverability.

Does anyone else feel this way? If so does it make sense for the flagship of starfleet to essentially be the achilles heel/heal (i see what you did there <<) of a team?

ps as an aside trying to keep it focused on starfleet ships and not jemhadar attack ships or recluise carriers... yeah they can do some jobs better, which is a wee bit sad as ingame ships < zstore/fleet ships < lobi/lockbox ships, not to derail my own thread lol



thanks for any thoughts or opinions you might have on the matter.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 2
11-07-2012, 02:26 PM
New ship. New hype. As with all new ships, it leaves older ones in the dust. The Vesta only has one weakness: terrible base hull. The Odyssey has many weaknesses. The Vesta was designed by the dev team to be stupidly powerful to do one thing and one thing only: boost sales. The Vesta can out-dps, out-heal, out-turn, and out-tank (as shields go) the Odyssey with ease. The only thing you will maybe see an Odyssey doing is out-lasting the Vesta when it comes to living through massive bursts. And that's mostly in reference to transphasics and those insanely powerful heavy plasma torps you see the borg use.

With the way things are currently going the Odyssey is going to become the same thing as the Galaxy. Just another figurehead for idealists.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 3
11-07-2012, 02:33 PM
While the Vesta is definitely ahead of the Odyssey in cutting-edge technology, the Federation values powerful, durable multi-task ships above the others...

The Vesta has good shield numbers, but low hull and less weapon slots means it's not the strongest (escorts still beat it in damage).

The Odyssey still has decent shields, much better hull, and is considerably sturdier no matter what the version. And with more weapons, it can do more damage, even if it's over-time. Not to mention, pretty much every single one of Starfleet's flagships have been cruisers.

The Vesta makes a powerful Sci ship, and that's good, but the Odyssey has a slight lead because of sturdyness. At least, imo
Was named Trek17, but still an author.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 195
# 4
11-07-2012, 02:42 PM
It depends what you're looking for in the ship:

The Odyssey is a physically tougher ship while the Vesta is a good bit quicker; the Odyssey is Eng focused while the Vesta is Sci focused (say what you will about the Universals, the Cmdr tell a good bit about how the ship functions).

The Odyssey is the big backbone ship while the Vesta is the sleek one.

Take your pick because they'll both perform well depending on the role you put them in.

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Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 5
11-07-2012, 03:40 PM
It doesn't matter how good or bad the ship is. It all depends on the players skills and trimming compared to the other ship he is fighting. This hip will be a great ship for some and others are going to get it and complain because they will think its a I-win button and its not
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 25
# 6
11-07-2012, 05:13 PM
As far as I can tell without personally flying one, the Vesta is to science ships what the Odyssey is to Cruisers: a class defining ship. Now, that doesn't mean it is "the best" of that class; what it means is that it has features and functions that you would want and expect from that class (at the cost of other things), plus a few tricks that.

The Odyssey is a massive, survivable cruiser that can lighten up with saucer sep or add more burst damage with the Aquarius. It is, otherwise, as cruisers are, extremely survivable at the cost of mobility. Both pets, however, are fragile as heck, which balances things out, and saucer separation is meant to rebalance speed to hull strength, self-repair (in crew size), and power levels--not always a viable trade-off in more difficult content, especially when trying to be a main tank.

The Vesta is most definitely a science vessel with more DPS and survivability. While its consoles sound amazing, cool downs are likely going to make them very momentary advantages compared to the abilities of the Odyssey. The phaser power requires maintaining your arc for a relatively long period of time, and all the survivability powers are on long cool downs. The Vesta's actual best ability as a science vessel lies in the aux cannons, as they can provide a substantial increase in DPS. However, with only 3x3 weapon slots, like all science vessels, a Vesta can really only be competitive in terms of DPS if fighting a single hard target, such as a tactical cube. When it comes to hull, there is no doubt that it is a science ship, with not much more overall survivability than a Reconnaissance Science Vessel, considering how fast a good enemy can tear apart shields.

Overall, from all evidence, the Odyssey ends up being perhaps the best rounded cruiser in the game, all things considered, and the Vesta the best rounded science vessel in the game. However, the Odyssey can definitely be trumped in terms of DPS by other builds, and can be equaled and possibly bettered in overall survivability by a few builds without giving up as much in terms of maneuverability or firepower.

The Vesta perhaps goes a step further in being possibly the best rounded ship in the entire game what with cannons, solid survivability, a carrier bay, and a sack full of console toy goodness. But it is a jack of all trades, and thus a master of none. It can be outgunned and out-survived by many other builds across the game in general. Its one advantage, in all honesty, is that it is clearly the best overall science vessel in the game, with the Wells coming in at a respectable second. The Wells is more maneuverable, more survivable, and has a few tricks of its own, but will likely not be able to match the Vesta in firepower and sheer number of tricks available (assuming one picks up all three Vesta variants), alongside being a lockbox ship.

Perhaps the one way that the Vesta truly outshines the Odyssey without a doubt is that it actually has three visual variants, so that you can actually make it your own. Otherwise, they seem very much on equal footing in that all their advantages come with enough costs to make them entirely beatable in any category, but an excellent compromise for captains who want some of everything.

I'd also rather spend the outright C-Store cost compared to lockboxes. The only ships I've ever gotten from lockboxes are the Mirror science variants (a total of 3 times), having opened probably hundreds of lockboxes over the period of time since they've been out there (it helps that I don't buy many other video games until they go on sale).

My verdict so far is that the Vesta is exactly what science class ships needed, as there is an utter lack of truly competitive science vessels in the game. It is, however, very far from an "I Win" button, and I'm sure that in PvP, a good player can think of at least half a dozen ways to best it (I am no PvPer myself, but I do my research anyway). If well timed, its special abilities will allow the Vesta to survive an instance or two of burst damage, but without a doubt will be hard pressed to survive long enough for its DPS to ramp up enough to take out many good PvPers in time. The entire downside to Fed science vessels in PvP is that it takes time to ramp up to their best damage while (realistically) not being significantly more durable than an escort (again, in PvP--in PvE, the difference is palpable). The Vesta is the first science ship to be an out-of-the-box usable ship in PvP, but it is still, without a doubt, a science ship with all its pros and cons.

That isn't to say that players can't use science ships in PvP, just that they're inherently not in any advantage compared to escorts and cruisers.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 229
# 7
11-07-2012, 06:10 PM
Bleah...

Jupiter's better

Had to put my 2 cents in, you may now ignore the statement!

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Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 8
11-07-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm sorry I hate to say it I've loved and wanted the vesta for so long but over all the best sci hip is the wells. And I don't want any of that P2W crap being said because I don't use any of the temp ablitys. But yeah the turn eye is amazing it shd mod is better yeah it can't use DHC but a sci ships ablity to kill is in its debuffs and doff's along with perfect timing and skill. The vesta is just a big giant sci ship that has a few big guns. That being said I have in no way tested it I will get it an use it. But chances are ill stick with the wells. Why because the only two ships that come close to the wells in terms of sci skill is the orb. And if built right the nebula. They will for always be the best the vesta is for baby sci Capts who can figure out how to build a sci ship to make an escort hybrid. He'll give me 1 FBP 3, 1 RF 2 with pol-desrupts, and 1 TBR 2 and ill drap a vesta in less then 60 sec. Heck ill Sensor scan and sub nuke and make it shorter then that.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 9
11-08-2012, 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpack12c View Post
I'm sorry I hate to say it I've loved and wanted the vesta for so long but over all the best sci hip is the wells. And I don't want any of that P2W crap being said because I don't use any of the temp ablitys. But yeah the turn eye is amazing it shd mod is better yeah it can't use DHC but a sci ships ablity to kill is in its debuffs and doff's along with perfect timing and skill. The vesta is just a big giant sci ship that has a few big guns. That being said I have in no way tested it I will get it an use it. But chances are ill stick with the wells. Why because the only two ships that come close to the wells in terms of sci skill is the orb. And if built right the nebula. They will for always be the best the vesta is for baby sci Capts who can figure out how to build a sci ship to make an escort hybrid. He'll give me 1 FBP 3, 1 RF 2 with pol-desrupts, and 1 TBR 2 and ill drap a vesta in less then 60 sec. Heck ill Sensor scan and sub nuke and make it shorter then that.
Lol and after this fine speech watch the first vesta you come across wipe the star system with your ships hull.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,294
# 10
11-08-2012, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Lol and after this fine speech watch the first vesta you come across wipe the star system with your ships hull.
I don't know - I'm buying the Vesta pack, and will be putting my Tac toon in the Aventine-type, but my sci toon is staying in my Wells.

I really don't think that the Vesta would 'wipe the star system with my ship's hull' at all.

For one, the Wells has a higher turnrate.

For two, I can ruin the Vesta's turn rate - I have the Temporal Warfare set and can fire off healthy numbers of Chroniton torpedoes to ruin a Vesta's turn-rate. Furthermore, I can use Temporal Backstep to slow you to near-standstill; I can also fire high-yield Temporal Disruption devices at you at a faster rate courtesy of reduced cooldown time whilst the backstep is active.

For Three - Vesta is liable to be using cannons. I have (Chroniton and Antiproton) dual beams that, whilst not as good for DPS, can facilitate my use of sub-system targeting.

For four - Tipler cylinder.

Now, the Vesta has certain abilities that would negate some of the Wells ability - I doubt, for example that a Heavy Temporal Disruption Device would do anything against the Vesta's Quantum Focused Shield. And any damage done during Temporal backstep could be negated by well-timed use of the Vesta's Sympathetic Fermion Transceiver.

And for all we know, the Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis might negate the backstep altogether.

Now I am NOT saying this would be a cakewalk - far from it. What I AM saying is that the Wells would NOT be a pushover Vs a Vesta.

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