Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 601
12-05-2012, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
I want to know what version of the 21st century you're living in, because if T'jiggle and nearly every other form of media out there is any indication, you're hilariously wrong.
Last I checked this was a thread where people were complaining about the removal of Phaser Dude and insertion of Captain Cleavage. Maybe if we weren't complaining you'd have a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancemeszaros View Post
So you'd rather go back to the 1950s where women were expected to cover everything from the neck down? I find it hilarious that you think a choice of clothing is "slutty" and turns her into a "piece of meat"; it really shows your own sexist ideas.
Thank you for a perfect example of what's known as a Straw Man argument.

Yes I know you're all shocked that I'm advocating we put this woman in *gasp* an actual Starfleet uniform. I know, I know, you'd miss all the cartoon boob and leg you desperately want, and we can't have that.

It may be hard to grasp for the more sexist among you, but you can actually have an attractive woman that isn't exposing her chest.

I tell you what, I will happily concede if you can provide a canon source of a Starfleet Captain dressing this provocatively in a Starfleet Uniform, or a Vulcan in a Starfleet Uniform that exposes that much cleavage.

I mean seriously, you guys are trying to claim that that image is "Star Trek"?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,012
# 602
12-05-2012, 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
It was my polite way of pointing out that you're stuck in the same sexist mindset of pointing out TOS as the guideline for what is Star Trek w/ regards to uniforms. This ain't the 60s anymore, man. Having the majority of females be half-naked was how things were at the time. We're in the 21st century now, though. That just ain't the way it is anymore, and we've got 50 more years worth of Star Trek to prove it.

As you point out yourself, Troi's outfits were largely not official Starfleet. She certainly wasn't wearing anything as blatantly slutty as this. If you're going to try to tell me that this slut outfit is the new official Starfleet uniform, you need to lay off the Ferasan Chag grass. That would be absolutely ridiculous. The only reason they even put in the "canon" bit about crews choosing their own uniforms was so we could get away with wearing a TOS Uniform or a TNG or Voyager, that's how they sell more uniforms.

TOS was Star Trek, but now it's also TNG, DS9, VOY, the movies, etc. Where women aren't treated as just pieces of meat and objectified, as you'd suggest. Women are flesh and blood characters just as much as any of the male characters. If you think slutty-dressed women represents Star Trek, you're stuck in a long-dead age.

You're the most naive person on this universe if you can't see that it's a blatant attempt to sell the game via sex. I don't know who you're trying to convince it's anything more than that.
Well, I guess you missed my last paragraph that stated 'Star Trek' was created as entertainment to bioth entertain and make the creators and distributors money.

Also, if hyou look at ALL 24th century Star Trek, the set in the 22nd century 'Enterprise' series (as well as JJ Abrahm's Star Trek - circa 2009) - I think you'll see the current makers of Star Trek are ALSO stuck in that 'long dead age.'

Also, please point out where I said I DON'T believe that it's a blatant attempt to sell the game via sex. It OBVIOUSLY is.

My point (which you seem to miss) is simple: Someone said: "This isn't Star Trek"... relating to the sexed up image.

My response: "If you WATCH Star Trek, you'll see it IS part of Star Trek because in the end, Star Trek is entertainment." - followed by my reasons for stating why I think it's so.

You're the one who said, "You need to watch more Star Trek and move to the 'Modern era'.

Well, my point was - I have; and there's still plenty of times from 1966 - 2009 (which is the last time to date we've had 'new' Star Trek on TV or in film); where Star Trek has been 'sexed up' in an attempt to sell Star Trek related products, get ratings, or get butts in theatre seats. <---- You're the one fooling yourself believing otherwise; or that somehow 24th Century era Star Trek has never done this; or had it as a part of it.

Again Star trek is entertainment, not a philosophy or a religion. As for GR's 'vision', hyou might want to read a biography on the man before you go thinking he too was somehow above using 'sex' to promote Star Trek at various points in the IP's run.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,948
# 603
12-05-2012, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
Last I checked this was a thread where people were complaining about the removal of Phaser Dude and insertion of Captain Cleavage. Maybe if we weren't complaining you'd have a point.
But I do have a point. You're trying to make a claim that the 21st century is a morally superior age, when it's pretty obvious it isn't. That claim has no legs to stand on, because that's still the way it is.


At any rate, I stand by my original assertion that our covergirl is pretty well dressed all things considered, and while perhaps not the best representation of Star Trek, she's far better an image of women than most MMO's you see nowadays. Her skirt is longer than any uniform skirt we ever saw in Trek for Spock's sake, and her cleavage is only marginally more out there than Troi's ever was. People are getting all feminazi up-in-arms over a picture who's dressed like a friggin' nun compared to Rift (whose outfit is held on by prayer) or League of Legends (one woman in that whole picture and she just happens to be the only one showing any skin). You all look silly trying to argue this as offensive and insensitive when at best it's a little tasteless. Talk about blowing things way out of proportion...

The only thing questionable in that entire picture is what the artist was smoking when he came up with that hilarious pose.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,375
# 604
12-05-2012, 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
why would it be better?
its artificial and we know that biology always trumps technology
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
Well if they wanted them efficient they would be individualised and 100% organic wouldn't they ??
That's not how the Borg think. In their view, perfection only comes when the organic and the synthetic are combined. That way you get (no pun intended) the best of both worlds.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's their philosophy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
T'pless is my favourite im actually tempted to create a Boff of that name and for the first time EVER move the bust slider past 1/3rd
Ironically, that would probably get you banned.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured ... the first thought forbidden ... the first freedom denied ... chains us all irrevocably."

Last edited by psycoticvulcan; 12-05-2012 at 06:48 PM.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 605
12-05-2012, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Well, I guess you missed my last paragraph that stated 'Star Trek' was created as entertainment to bioth entertain and make the creators and distributors money.

Also, if hyou look at ALL 24th century Star Trek, the set in the 22nd century 'Enterprise' series (as well as JJ Abrahm's Star Trek - circa 2009) - I think you'll see the current makers of Star Trek are ALSO stuck in that 'long dead age.'

Also, please point out where I said I DON'T believe that it's a blatant attempt to sell the game via sex. It OBVIOUSLY is.

My point (which you seem to miss) is simple: Someone said: "This isn't Star Trek"... relating to the sexed up image.

My response: "If you WATCH Star Trek, you'll see it IS part of Star Trek because in the end, Star Trek is entertainment." - followed by my reasons for stating why I think it's so.

You're the one who said, "You need to watch more Star Trek and move to the 'Modern era'.

Well, my point was - I have; and there's still plenty of times from 1966 - 2009 (which is the last time to date we've had 'new' Star Trek on TV or in film); where Star Trek has been 'sexed up' in an attempt to sell Star Trek related products, get ratings, or get butts in theatre seats. <---- You're the one fooling yourself believing otherwise; or that somehow 24th Century era Star Trek has never done this; or had it as a part of it.

Again Star trek is entertainment, not a philosophy or a religion. As for GR's 'vision', hyou might want to read a biography on the man before you go thinking he too was somehow above using 'sex' to promote Star Trek at various points in the IP's run.
So you're claiming it's only entertainment and therefore any of the ideals it claims to stick to are meaningless?

There's a difference between having sexy characters and having slutty characters. If the new Uhura wore a bikini as her "uniform" that would be slutty. Even in TOS Uhura's uniform was attractive without being blatant cleavage.

Perhaps you'd care to show us all a Starfleet Uniform that was "sexed up" as you put? Perhaps you'd like to show us the "sexed up" Starfleet Captains in uniform? Feel free to show us a "sexed up" Vulcan in Starfleet Uniform.

Or perhaps you can't actually back up any of your statements.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 318
# 606
12-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
But I do have a point. You're trying to make a claim that the 21st century is a morally superior age, when it's pretty obvious it isn't. That claim has no legs to stand on, because that's still the way it is.


At any rate, I stand by my original assertion that our covergirl is pretty well dressed all things considered, and while perhaps not the best representation of Star Trek, she's far better an image of women than most MMO's you see nowadays. Her skirt is longer than any uniform skirt we ever saw in Trek for Spock's sake, and her cleavage is only marginally more out there than Troi's ever was. People are getting all feminazi up-in-arms over a picture who's dressed like a friggin' nun compared to Rift (whose outfit is held on by prayer) or League of Legends (one woman in that whole picture and she just happens to be the only one showing any skin). You all look silly trying to argue this as offensive and insensitive when at best it's a little tasteless. Talk about blowing things way out of proportion...

The only thing questionable in that entire picture is what the artist was smoking when he came up with that hilarious pose.
So your argument is, everyone else does it?

Hate to break it to you but just because these MMOs do it, doesn't mean that we need to follow suit, nor does that make it okay.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,105
# 607
12-05-2012, 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
The only thing questionable in that entire picture is what the artist was smoking when he came up with that hilarious pose.
Another question would be: Could I have some?
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,948
# 608
12-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
So your argument is, everyone else does it?

Hate to break it to you but just because these MMOs do it, doesn't mean that we need to follow suit, nor does that make it okay.
My argument is it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

Last edited by jexsamx; 12-05-2012 at 07:43 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 156
# 609
12-05-2012, 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
Yes I know you're all shocked that I'm advocating we put this woman in *gasp* an actual Starfleet uniform.
Last I checked, that was. Of course, complaining about having an STO character in a Starfleet uniform when we have dozens of possible clothing options is pointless. However, she is in fact wearing an actual Starfleet uniform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
Thank you for a perfect example of what's known as a Straw Man argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
I know, I know, you'd miss all the cartoon boob and leg you desperately want, and we can't have that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
It may be hard to grasp for the more sexist among you, but you can actually have an attractive woman that isn't exposing her chest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
Thank you for a perfect example of what's known as a Straw Man argument.
The irony dripping from your post is hilarious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
I mean seriously, you guys are trying to claim that that image is "Star Trek"?
About as "Star Trek" as the original was. At least it looks like she's doing something other than sitting on the bridge being a glorified telephone operator. I'm sorry if a bit of exposed skin makes you freak out, but most of us here have stopped being 12 and thinking girls have cooties.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,105
# 610
12-05-2012, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
My argument is it's not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.
Exactly. Is T'its a good thing? No. Is she a bad thing? No. Is her existence and reasoning behind it a stupid thing? Very, very yes.

Sex, titilation and fanservice aren't intrinsically bad things, it can be used to celebrate the human form, carnal desires, beauty, love, affection, and passion. But when it's so overt that it's being used as lazy marketing ploy to rope in hormone ridden nerds with no class and dignity then that's when it becomes something stupid and offensive.

I guarantee you that you could take T'its, uniform, cleavage, high heels and all, and turn it into something far more worthwhile.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg
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