Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
Just posting this, as dontdrunkimshoot's thread seems to have run it's course.



I've got a cruiser itch I've been scratching at lately, so I put this together:

Fleet Retrofits: Fed Cruisers vs. KDF Battle Cruisers

I wanted to post it as a spreadsheet, but google docs has some irritating functions or lack of functions that I didn't feel like working around.



This is a straight "head to head" of what I think are the Fed & KDF counterparts for Cruisers.

I suppose looking at it from the developer's point of view they are "even" in that they each get a little something here and there with Feds getting a tiny bit of extra defense and KDF getting (quite a bit more) offense.


I think my main complaint is that defense, defense and more defense in the shape of some extra hull for Fed ships just really isn't as good as the benefits the KDF cruisers get in comparison.


Part of this is the design objectives for Fed and KDF ships, and another part is a pretty system wide issue in that the entire game heavily favors offense over a few K hull points.





Some opinions:

1) Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet K'T'inga: Relatively even, although the Fleet K'T'inga is the much more appealing ship personally.

This is actually the most balanced match up. While I think having more offense in the shape of a dramatically higher turn rate, cloak and the ability to take advantage of that turn rate with DCs/DHCs is much better - the Heavy Cruiser R does get an extra 5K hull.


2) Fleet Assault Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet Vor'cha Retrofit: Vor'cha wins, hands down.

These two ships are the Tac heavy, offense focused ships. Except the Vor'cha comes out leagues ahead. Significantly better turn rate, cloaking, DHCs/DCs at a loss of only 3K hull? No contest.

Oh yeah, the Fleet AC-R can use 1 extra device slot...wowie. I'm usually scratching my head what to put in the 4th slot as it is.


3) Fleet Star Cruiser vs. Fleet Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser: Winner Corsair, but only by a little.

These ships are pretty evenly matched. The Corsair gets a better turn rate, but not much and no DHCs/DCs (and the turn rate wouldn't really be good enough for them anyway). It gets a hangar which I think is more useful than 3k hull, but they're relatively even depending on playstyle preference.


4) Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet Negh'var Heavy Battle Cruiser: This one is some kind of a cruel joke. The Negh'var not only wins, it shows up at the Galaxy's hospital bed to kick it in the crotch while it's down and post the resulting photos on facebook.

1.1k hull and a Device slot vs. massively better turn rate, universal ensign, Dual cannons, cloaking...

*Yes the Galaxy can get Saucer separation: a limited use ability on a cooldown, that takes up a console slot granting more maneuverability to a ship that is stuck using beam arrays anyway - it also requires purchase from the store AND grinding out a T5 (IIRC) starbase.


Someone the Dev team went to bat for the Negh'var, it looks amazing and I can't wait to own one.

Someone on the Dev team thinks the Galaxy deserves to be a museum that invites little starfleet babies to it to teach them what not to fly when they get older.






So that's my opinion.

Are the Fed Cruisers underpowered? Hardly.

They're basically what they always were: underwhelming & somewhat boring.

It's just exasperated by just how much better the Fleet KDF Retrofits are looking due to the new BOFF layouts giving them some amazing new options for offense.




dontdrunkimshoot said it well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot
the fed cruisers are basically only good at turtleling, healing, and shooting beam arrays for mild to moderate pressure damage.

the kdf cruisers have many different options. they can do everything a fed cruiser can, and a properly built DHC vorcha can be as dangerous as a cross between a fed cruiser, escort and sci ship combined.

with 3 turn rate consoles giving me 25 turn rate, a tractor beam and eject plasma i can keep someone immobilized for almost a minute, with only about 30 seconds down time in between. i got all the most powerful cruiser heals, wile at the same time i can effectively use escort weapons. vorcha is the funnest ship to fly imo

Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-16-2012 at 09:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 371
# 2
07-10-2012, 09:01 AM
The fleet Negvar and Vorcha are pretty much the only fleet ships for the kdf that are better than their fed 'counterparts', imo.
Fancy an exclusive, extended 21 day trial of eve online?
Sign up (heck, it's free for almost a full month, using the link) and see what you think.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 3
07-10-2012, 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantrainor View Post
The fleet Negvar and Vorcha are pretty much the only fleet ships for the kdf that are better than their fed 'counterparts', imo.
That's basically my opinion above, but in this game offense wins over extra hull.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,918
# 4
07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
until i can get into the fleet vorcha, that fleet ktinga looks soooo awesome. it has the 11 turn rate, and im not sure off the top of my head but its inertia score should be much more escort like. it shall definitely replace my current vorcha asap. the heavy cruiser is just an assault cruiser with less hitpoints but 1 more turn rate, kinda underwhelming. and the galaxy continues to suck at life, especially when compared the the negvar.

oh and the dearly departed fleet sov, well im of the opinion that a ship thats only ever going to be good at using beam arrays proboly doesn't need 5 tac stations. ive always thought a sov with a tactical COM would be the best, with LTC, LT and ENS engineering. i will certainly take the 5 tac station sov over the original sov setup though.
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 07-10-2012 at 12:09 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 55
# 5
07-10-2012, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post


4) Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet Negh'var Heavy Battle Cruiser: This one is some kind of a cruel joke. The Negh'var not only wins, it shows up at the Galaxy's hospital bed to kick it in the crotch while it's down and post the resulting photos on facebook.

1.1k hull and a Device slot vs. massively better turn rate, universal ensign, Dual cannons, cloaking...

*Yes the Galaxy can get Saucer separation: a limited use ability on a cooldown, that takes up a console slot granting more maneuverability to a ship that is stuck using beam arrays anyway - it also requires purchase from the store AND grinding out a T5 (IIRC) starbase.


Someone the Dev team went to bat for the Negh'var, it looks amazing and I can't wait to own one.

Someone on the Dev team thinks the Galaxy deserves to be a museum that invites little starfleet babies to it to teach them what not to fly when they get older.






So that's my opinion.

Are the Fed Cruisers underpowered? Hardly.

They're basically what they always were: underwhelming & somewhat boring.

It's just exasperated by just how much better the Fleet KDF Retrofits are looking due to the new BOFF layouts giving them some amazing new options for offense.




dontdrunkimshoot said it well:
yes I agree the galaxy class will loose because of its crappy turn rate and the dev who said that pretty much pissed off a lot of star trek fans who like that ship
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 58
# 6
07-10-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Just posting this, as dontdrunkimshoot's thread seems to have run it's course.



I've got a cruiser itch I've been scratching at lately, so I put this together:

Fleet Retrofits: Fed Cruisers vs. KDF Battle Cruisers

I wanted to post it as a spreadsheet, but google docs has some irritating functions or lack of functions that I didn't feel like working around.



This is a straight "head to head" of what I think are the Fed & KDF counterparts for Cruisers.

I suppose looking at it from the developer's point of view they are "even" in that they each get a little something here and there with Feds getting a tiny bit of extra defense and KDF getting (quite a bit more) offense.


I think my main complaint is that defense, defense and more defense in the shape of some extra hull for Fed ships just really isn't as good as the benefits the KDF cruisers get in comparison.


Part of this is the design objectives for Fed and KDF ships, and another part is a pretty system wide issue in that the entire game heavily favors offense over a few K hull points.





Some opinions:

1) Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet K'T'inga: Relatively even, although the Fleet K'T'inga is the much more appealing ship personally.

This is actually the most balanced match up. While I think having more offense in the shape of a dramatically higher turn rate, cloak and the ability to take advantage of that turn rate with DCs/DHCs is much better - the Heavy Cruiser R does get an extra 5K hull.


2) Fleet Assault Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet Vor'cha Retrofit: Vor'cha wins, hands down.

These two ships are the Tac heavy, offense focused ships. Except the Vor'cha comes out leagues ahead. Significantly better turn rate, cloaking, DHCs/DCs at a loss of only 3K hull? No contest.

Oh yeah, the Fleet AC-R can use 1 extra device slot...wowie. I'm usually scratching my head what to put in the 4th slot as it is.


3) Fleet Star Cruiser vs. Fleet Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser: Winner Corsair, but only by a little.

These ships are pretty evenly matched. The Corsair gets a better turn rate, but not much and no DHCs/DCs (and the turn rate wouldn't really be good enough for them anyway). It gets a hangar which I think is more useful than 3k hull, but they're relatively even depending on playstyle preference.


4) Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit vs. Fleet Negh'var Heavy Battle Cruiser: This one is some kind of a cruel joke. The Negh'var not only wins, it shows up at the Galaxy's hospital bed to kick it in the crotch while it's down and post the resulting photos on facebook.

1.1k hull and a Device slot vs. massively better turn rate, universal ensign, Dual cannons, cloaking...

*Yes the Galaxy can get Saucer separation: a limited use ability on a cooldown, that takes up a console slot granting more maneuverability to a ship that is stuck using beam arrays anyway - it also requires purchase from the store AND grinding out a T5 (IIRC) starbase.


Someone the Dev team went to bat for the Negh'var, it looks amazing and I can't wait to own one.

Someone on the Dev team thinks the Galaxy deserves to be a museum that invites little starfleet babies to it to teach them what not to fly when they get older.






So that's my opinion.

Are the Fed Cruisers underpowered? Hardly.

They're basically what they always were: underwhelming & somewhat boring.

It's just exasperated by just how much better the Fleet KDF Retrofits are looking due to the new BOFF layouts giving them some amazing new options for offense.




dontdrunkimshoot said it well:
The Negh'Vars counterpart is actually the assault cruiser, not the Galaxy.
No Idea if you or Cryptic(ingame) got it wrong though.

Last edited by dracondarknight; 07-10-2012 at 12:48 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
07-10-2012, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dracondarknight View Post
The Negh'Vars counterpart is actually the assault cruiser, not the Galaxy.
No Idea if you or Cryptic(ingame) got it wrong though.
And Vorcha is counterpart to what then ?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,918
# 8
07-10-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dracondarknight View Post
The Negh'Vars counterpart is actually the assault cruiser, not the Galaxy.
No Idea if you or Cryptic(ingame) got it wrong though.
the negvar has the same station setup as the galaxy R, the vorcha has the same station setup as the sov. these are the closest to being counterparts to each other
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 9
07-10-2012, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dracondarknight View Post
The Negh'Vars counterpart is actually the assault cruiser, not the Galaxy.
No Idea if you or Cryptic(ingame) got it wrong though.

It's been covered already, but from the game's perspective the Negh'var is the counterpart to the Galaxy.

If you take a look at the cruiser line up for the fleet retrofits, you'll see the pattern that somewhat already existed:


Sci Focused
Corsair & Star Cruiser

Tac Focused
Vor'cha & Assault Cruiser

Eng Focused
Negh'var & Galaxy-R


If you look even closer you'll notice that the Sci, Tac and Eng versions of each of these ships BOFF layouts is something you could recreate using the C-store versions of the different Ody & Bortasqu ships.


So these ships are a way to get a very specialized version of these BOFF layouts "for free" with a different skin (and generally better turn rates, sorry Gal-R the joke's on you!!)

They have less customizability (or zero) and generally less shields, in some cases (mostly KDF side) they have less hull.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 741
# 10
07-16-2012, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
And Vorcha is counterpart to what then ?
The Vor'cha was the KDF's answer to the Galaxy. The Sovereign was Starfleet's answer to anything anyone had coming down the line and it ended up being made to kill the Borg. The Negh'var was just the KDF's next big thing....wonder if we'll ever see the Mirror version where they took that a little too literally.

I don't know why the dev's worked things around. They equate size purely to durability I suppose.

By contrast your stock Galaxy is tissue paper compared to a production Defiant (both have Ablative armor). Proof?

The USS Odyssey vs the Jem Hadar and the Defiant deploying mines. Even with her shields down and unable to make evasive maneuvers the Defiant tanked the hell out of the cockroa- I mean Scarabs.

The Sovereign on the other hand is the best of both worlds. It's as durable as the Defiant, the advanced systems shields and speed of the Intrepid, and the power and fire power of the Galaxy and Defiant combined. If they made it the way it is in canon even considering forty years have passed (didn't stop the NCC-1701 from being top of the line to retirement) then it would be the undisputed god of playable ships. Or at least equal to the Negh'var. It took a true monster like the Scimitar (a far more broken Scimitar than what's in game ) to really beat her.

I know they don't want to unbalance the game or anything, and certainly they want there to be incentive to fly other ships....I just wish they'd put the Assault back in our Assault cruiser.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:40 AM.