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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
# 11
11-09-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
Then you put him back in, and it's him literally threatening to hover a shuttle craft over a sacred tree and pee out the door (presumably blaring Flight of the Valkyries over the coms) because it's somehow the aliens' fault that his dog is sick.
Oh gawd, my sides... that made me actually snort laughing.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,228
# 12
11-09-2012, 09:52 AM
I didn't mind T'Pol (cause let's face it, she was hawt), but Archer was just a whiny incompetent. Half of the missions start out with him getting himself in trouble - usually captured by someone - and his crew having to get him out of trouble. Fortunately his crew was competent. He lacked leadership skills, and carried a chip on his shoulder for anyone that he thought was questioning his command - which was everyone.
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# 13
11-09-2012, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
Thing that annoyed me with Archer was that he was clearly being written to be a great captain, despite being a bad captain. Other characters treated him like an accomplished diplomat, veteran soldier, and recognized that he and his crew were formidable on any field whether as an ally or enemy.

See, Janeway I also consider a bad captain, but that aspect of Voyager was always saved in my eyes because they regularly made it look like she was being written as a bad captain - her officers actually call her on bad decisions, and she responds the way a bad captain would. A bad captain can still be a good character, when it drives conflict for example.

If you blacked out Janeway and muted her dialog and watched those scenes, you'd think, "Wow, she must be a bad captain." Then you put her in, and surprise, she's making a questionable decision and using rank to silence dissent.

If you did that with Archer, you'd think, "Wow, he must have Picard's diplomacy, Sisko's ruthlessness, and Kirk's integrity. He must be the best captain ever." Then you put him back in, and it's him literally threatening to hover a shuttle craft over a sacred tree and pee out the door (presumably blaring Flight of the Valkyries over the coms) because it's somehow the aliens' fault that his dog is sick.
Archer annoyed the snot out of me to be honest. They tried to do a Kirk with him - i.e 'I won't send an officer into a situation that I wouldn't be prepared to face myself' attitude.

And it didn't really work - there were quite a few occasions where I was left thinking "why did HE have to be one to do that?!"

Suicide Mission? Had to be him who undertook it
Dangerous situation? Had to be him who put himself in it
Experimental treatment for Klingon disease? Had to be him who tested it

Etc etc - it didn't make him look heroic, it made him look expendable. And it felt like the producers were shouting "hey, we got Scott Bakula - we have to use him in, like, EVERYTHING"!
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 14
11-09-2012, 10:09 AM
I didn't think Archer was that bad. I thought he was made out to be sort of a frontier cowboy type explorer. Humans and Starfleet hadn't worked out all of the protocols and stuff yet, so he was just making it up as he went along, and screwing up some of the time. I don't think he was a great captain, but even the whole putting himself in harm's way thing sort of reflected on his frontier cowboy character. Even Kirk didn't always put himself in harm's way. I think it made more sense with Archer somehow.

I do agree that sometimes his crew was written to treat him with an exaggerated degree of respect though. I mean, in the other shows like TNG and DS9 people respected the Captain, but didn't necessarily worship the ground he walked on. A few times in Enterprise that line seemed to be crossed.


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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 15
11-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Let me save you some bleeding eyes and time.

I hated the first 2 seasons of Enterprise because even thou humans knew aliens existed, and had been prepping to go further out to meet more of them for 100 years, no one had a clue what to do when the crew actually found aliens.

The entire first two seasons of Enterprise can be condensed into the following summary:

Archer: Hey, look. People live here.

Crew: Yay! Should we go down to the planet?

T'Pol: Bad idea.

Archer: Shuddup. Lets go.

On the planet, someone does something stupid, or loses a piece of equipment, or their dog gets sick (lame)......

Crew: Wow, we sure were lucky we didn't F that up any more than we did.

T'Pol: Told you it was a bad idea.

Archer: Shuddup. Find me another planet!


The show was much more watchable whenever T'pol was on screen and the volume was muted.
Career Officer
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Posts: 281
# 16
11-09-2012, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
I didn't mind T'Pol (cause let's face it, she was hawt), but Archer was just a whiny incompetent. Half of the missions start out with him getting himself in trouble - usually captured by someone - and his crew having to get him out of trouble. Fortunately his crew was competent. He lacked leadership skills, and carried a chip on his shoulder for anyone that he thought was questioning his command - which was everyone.
I agree with this. I was crossing my fingers that Trip Tucker would've replaced him as Captain halfway through, who seemed a heck of a lot closer to the ideal future person. A lot of my friends didn't like Trip because he lacked "realistic flaws" and made them feel inferior.

Overall though, I did enjoy Enterprise and was sad when it stopped.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 17
11-09-2012, 11:00 AM
I never held any beef against the characters, though if I had to pick, it had to be Hoshi who I felt was most annoying.

To me, the big problem was always the story, and it could be summed up in 3 words:

Temporal Cold War

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 845
# 18
11-09-2012, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
To me, the big problem was always the story, and it could be summed up in 3 words:

Temporal Cold War
I agree with you 100% there. Worst storyline ever. Ended up creating plot holes in the entire Star Trek franchise. Not good at all.


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 921
# 19
11-09-2012, 11:35 AM
My wife doesn't like much scifi, her one flaw lol But when I showed her ENT, she kind of liked it at 1st, then after a few more shows she couldn't get enough of it. lol The only part she hated was the Mirror Universe oart. She was oh come on this is stupid. lol She was use to seeing the crew one way, then this flip side wasn't a hit at all with her.

Anyway the show had it's flaws, but it also had a ton of good points about it. Plus it had Orion slave girls in a couple shows. Now who can hate that? lol
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14,317
# 20
11-09-2012, 12:00 PM
I think Archer was alright. To me, his shtick was that he had no clue what he was going to run into tomorrow, and, most of the time, no backup whatsoever.
HAIL HYDRA!

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