Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 985
Here are the reasons nicely laid out:-
1. Science shields - A decent science ship captin can tank really quite effectively with his small hull thanks to his huge shields (and two piece borg set if he feels so inclined).

2. Hangers - In and of itself hangers are fine, it's the pets. Peregrines etc add a small amount of extra DPS, so while annoying in PvP they aren't game breaking. Danubes on the otherhand offer the Vesta very useful crowd control tools. This isn't just a problem with the Vesta, it's also a problem with the Armitage, which is why I refuse to use them on mine.

3. Can equip dual heavy cannons - This is probably the biggest problem with the ship. It's got enough going for it that it's already an OP sci ship, the addition of dual heavy cannons however pushes it into super overpowered status. It's not like the Galaxy-x which has a poor turnrate, the vesta can turn quite quickly AND has awesome CC tools.

4. Science powers - You've given this ship nigh escort level of damage, the ability to use danubes as well as the ability to chain Viral Matrix 1&3. I can't be the only one who sees the problem with this.

Or the player could use a shield strip build, a power drain build or scramble build. Now for a normal science ship none of these would be a serious problem, but when you've got the games wizard casting spells AND swinging the games two handed mighty broadsword at the same time you've got problems.

5. Sensor Analysis - 3 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets is already pretty damaging by itself. With sensor analysis though it'd boost that damage beyond that of an escorts.


I'm not even bringing the console powers into this one, since it's plenty overpowered without them.

So to put it simply...

Uber CC (danubes and VM) + Dual heavy cannons + sensor analysis damage buff + science tanking + turnrate = Overpowered ship that makes the bug ship look reasonable.


A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 2
11-09-2012, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Here are the reasons nicely laid out:-
1. Science shields - A decent science ship captin can tank really quite effectively with his small hull thanks to his huge shields (and two piece borg set if he feels so inclined).

2. Hangers - In and of itself hangers are fine, it's the pets. Peregrines etc add a small amount of extra DPS, so while annoying in PvP they aren't game breaking. Danubes on the otherhand offer the Vesta very useful crowd control tools. This isn't just a problem with the Vesta, it's also a problem with the Armitage, which is why I refuse to use them on mine.

3. Can equip dual heavy cannons - This is probably the biggest problem with the ship. It's got enough going for it that it's already an OP sci ship, the addition of dual heavy cannons however pushes it into super overpowered status. It's not like the Galaxy-x which has a poor turnrate, the vesta can turn quite quickly AND has awesome CC tools.

4. Science powers - You've given this ship nigh escort level of damage, the ability to use danubes as well as the ability to chain Viral Matrix 1&3. I can't be the only one who sees the problem with this.

Or the player could use a shield strip build, a power drain build or scramble build. Now for a normal science ship none of these would be a serious problem, but when you've got the games wizard casting spells AND swinging the games two handed mighty broadsword at the same time you've got problems.

5. Sensor Analysis - 3 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets is already pretty damaging by itself. With sensor analysis though it'd boost that damage beyond that of an escorts.


I'm not even bringing the console powers into this one, since it's plenty overpowered without them.

So to put it simply...

Uber CC (danubes and VM) + Dual heavy cannons + sensor analysis damage buff + science tanking + turnrate = Overpowered ship that makes the bug ship look reasonable.


A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
1) Sacrifices 3 consoles to get that shield. Prone to kinetic damage from Gravwell, TBR, transphasics. So no. You lose so much for those consoles and a cool down of 3 minutes if I am not mistaken for that shield. Also, it can be SN doff'd off, as well as Sub nuked.

2) They're getting a nerf. Drastically reducing tractor beam use on the runabouts.

3) 12 turn rate. LoL Good luck with that, 3 consoles for the shield, and you want to put RCS on there too?

4) Again danubes are being nerf'd. Inertial damps/eng team/coordination leads to Viral being a minor setback just like any other ability put on you.

5) Ok I'll let you have this one, but this is basically the most beneficial part to the purchase. All of the above are things that can be easily considered, and deem it not OP.

If you compare this to the Wells, this ship is a joke. That miracle worker go back in time console saves a kill in most circumstances. Nothing compares to this.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 970
# 3
11-09-2012, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
If you start firing DHC's once you're within 10 km you're doing it wrong. Also, you don't need to use APO3 to evade FBP or a ship with just 3 DHC's and no attack patterns.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 360
# 4
11-09-2012, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by orondis View Post
Here are the reasons nicely laid out:-
1. Science shields - A decent science ship captin can tank really quite effectively with his small hull thanks to his huge shields (and two piece borg set if he feels so inclined).

2. Hangers - In and of itself hangers are fine, it's the pets. Peregrines etc add a small amount of extra DPS, so while annoying in PvP they aren't game breaking. Danubes on the otherhand offer the Vesta very useful crowd control tools. This isn't just a problem with the Vesta, it's also a problem with the Armitage, which is why I refuse to use them on mine.

3. Can equip dual heavy cannons - This is probably the biggest problem with the ship. It's got enough going for it that it's already an OP sci ship, the addition of dual heavy cannons however pushes it into super overpowered status. It's not like the Galaxy-x which has a poor turnrate, the vesta can turn quite quickly AND has awesome CC tools.

4. Science powers - You've given this ship nigh escort level of damage, the ability to use danubes as well as the ability to chain Viral Matrix 1&3. I can't be the only one who sees the problem with this.

Or the player could use a shield strip build, a power drain build or scramble build. Now for a normal science ship none of these would be a serious problem, but when you've got the games wizard casting spells AND swinging the games two handed mighty broadsword at the same time you've got problems.

5. Sensor Analysis - 3 dual heavy cannons and 3 turrets is already pretty damaging by itself. With sensor analysis though it'd boost that damage beyond that of an escorts.


I'm not even bringing the console powers into this one, since it's plenty overpowered without them.

So to put it simply...

Uber CC (danubes and VM) + Dual heavy cannons + sensor analysis damage buff + science tanking + turnrate = Overpowered ship that makes the bug ship look reasonable.


A 1v1 between a vesta and an escort will go something like this.
*Ships get within 10km of one another and both start firing dual heavy cannons.
*Vesta uses FBP1 adding extra damage to his attack.
*Escort has to stop shooting and decides to evade using attack pattern omega 3.
*Vesta casts VM3 on the escort.
*Vesta gets within 1km and launches Danubes.
*Escort captain begins to panic as his shields are getting pummled by increasingly more powerful dual heavy cannons and he can't move an inch.
*Finally the danube tractors turn off or the captain uses another attack pattern omega and the escort is free.
*Escort gets hit by VM1
*Escort shields are breached and the ship is quickly destroyed.
*Vesta wins without even breaking a sweat.
1. I am unsure what you mean. Is this about the shield mod? Well sci ships tend to have good shields yes. And the vesta has a bit less shields and hp than the fleet recon I think.

2. Hangars are always nice. OP pets... well they are nerfing the danube, lets see how that turns out.

3. DHC's do sound nice yes. How much they help we will see. You still only have 3/3 weapon slots and ypu can't use your target subsystem with it. Also you might not want to bring that many tac officers so maybe you are stuck with one CRF1. While the DHC's sure are nice and unique I am unsure if they really are that big of a problem. We will see I guess.

4. It has some nice CC potential, as do all sci ships. Let's wait and see how the danube change turn out.

5. No. You are still missing one DHC. Also you have max 4 tac consoles while there are escorts with 5. Also you don't have a tac com and if you choose tac for your lt com you are missing some sci or eng powers. While it is a versatile ship you still can't have everything at once.
As for the sensor analysis. You have to shoot for 1 min I think without switching target to get the full bonus. If you are not able to kill the enemy within 1 min you might want to switch targets anyway. Also it means you can't switch targets to heal or use your science powers on other ships.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,964
# 5
11-09-2012, 11:03 AM
For PvP, it is not overpowered ... if you have one
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 6
11-09-2012, 11:29 AM
So many people are focused on the DHCs as overpowered when they.. simply aren't. You are extremely console tight on this ship, so your 12 turn rate is not going to get a huge boost with RCS, and if it does you leaving yourself open to all kinds of serious hull problems.

If you use the aux cannons your turrets are 100% garbage unless you are keeping weapon power high and wasting all that sci damage for 3 turrets, is this the plan? I don't think so. You can use normal weapons with high weapon power and low aux but we kinda know how that works now with science ships with dual beams and turrets, DHCs aren't that much better.

Personally I'd probably look at 3 aux DHCs, 2 tri-cobalt mines and maybe the cutting beam when S7 comes out, that could be a nasty burst damage build, but terrible sustained.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,977
# 7
11-09-2012, 11:49 AM
been saying the exact same thing since it was revealed that carrier pets and 45 deg cannons could be used my a new type of ship, didnt even need to see the stats. its got 3 mold breaking qualities

extreamly flexible station setup

runabouts

escort spike ability


pick 1 and we can pretend its not op still.


anyone who uses up 3 console slots for that set stuff is a pve hero doing it wrong. and if you can get DHCs to work on a ship with a 12 base turn and with all the ways this ship can control movement, you fail, so hard.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 970
# 8
11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
been saying the exact same thing since it was revealed that carrier pets and 45 deg cannons could be used my a new type of ship, didnt even need to see the stats. its got 3 mold breaking qualities

extreamly flexible station setup

runabouts

escort spike ability


pick 1 and we can pretend its not op still.


anyone who uses up 3 console slots for that set stuff is a pve hero doing it wrong. and if you can get DHCs to work on a ship with a 12 base turn and with all the ways this ship can control movement, you fail, so hard.
It really does not have escort spike ability. The minus 1 DHC makes a pretty big difference by itself for spike. Then add to that no attack pattern alpha, no fleet attack pattern (or w/e it's called), no attack pattern omega 3 or CRF3, no go down fighting. It will be the most offensively oriented Sci ship for sure, but there's no way it will have anything close to a fully buffed alpha strike from an escort.

Then again, I'm thinking of a sci/sci. If a tac was in it, it would be higher, but still not escort high. I think the difference between CRF3 + APO1 + APD1 + 4 DHC's vs. CRF2 + APD1 + 3 DHC's (or APO1 + CRF1 + APD1 + 3 DHC's) can't be overlooked. Any way you slice it, the escort is going to have substantially more spike potential.

However, it will still be a rival for best ship in the game, mainly because of its versatility.

Last edited by skurf; 11-09-2012 at 01:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,714
# 9
11-09-2012, 03:11 PM
You can't lose innate Tac abilities by flying a non-Escort ship.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,746
# 10
11-09-2012, 04:13 PM
And consider the fact that most people who buy it will only use it to do dailies or other lame stuff.

Talk about overkill.

I can now hear the cries: Don't nerf my PvE-daily ship!


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
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