Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
I figure with the fact the new spotlighting feature is going live when foundry does again, we should get all our thoughts out and in one place for open discussion as well as for supplying to the Devs feedback. Granted, I'm not sure if we will see the direct agreement we will be signing over yet, but figure we can at least start talking about it in one solid place.

As far as my knowledge the previous spotlight winners have been informed of the new system going live and its major requirement of releasing control. It was also stated to be compulsory (how I read it) in that for our missions to be included in the spotlight list we'd have to choose to accept ourselves from the Mission Editor when foundry goes live.


The biggest concern I have, which is the one that I'd assume is in everyone else's mind, is that of being unable to edit the project after submission.

To start, the reason why they are asking this makes sense to me. They need to have complete control of what they are putting out there as content. This is beyond a little message pop up or a post on the website. This is an in your face button directing someone to a mission they okayed. Although any kind of offense there like suddenly turning your mission winner into a political manifesto or a fan-fic shade's of gray film would no doubt result in a permaban, it happening at all is something Cryptic (and their legal team) can't allow. I understand and I'm cool with that for reasoning.

As far as the implementation my concerns of handing over editing are mainly: upgrading mission features when new ones are available, the fixing of later accumulating bugs via new systems and seasons, and general QA like spell checking or text editing post submission.

Some of these I can see as a hand off if that's what Cryptic is wanting; they take this as official content then go off and populate the Klingon Storymode. They take over all QA, do a spelling once through, deal with any bug fixes themselves once they've gotten it handed over. Buuut, means any upgrading would be out.

Worse, it could just be: "That's it. No work done anymore. By anyone. It's now no one's problem but the players in the mission."

However, if it worked in a way where a previous submission can still be edited, and then when you want that version updated you can re-submit it for another eval before that version goes live... I can see that too. In fact I see that as a best of both worlds. We keep creative control, the publish to live isn't automatic so Cryptic can still monitor it and control it. Everybody wins.

I figure the main reason it is a "Do not get the Option to Edit" is the only system we've worked with has relied on us pressing that publish button. This system has to have a mission log that goes to a separate buffer for QA and whoever to decide what gets up. That's the safety Cryptic needs right there. Sure, no promises how fast our updated version get out and published, but it's something.
(A possible problem to this exists if it's just a list that's looking at missions already published on live. Then it wouldn't be a separate list. If that's the case though, maybe some time to get that kind of a work in for NW and the Future here.)


Other thoughts? Discuss.


One I didn't talk about was a time requirement. Now that we will have the average counter, it could be obvious how long a mission takes and probably something Cryptic will be able to directly consider rather than infer. That being the case, would the longer Nagorak Epic-esk and so on missions be able to apply?

Last edited by designationxr377; 11-19-2012 at 02:55 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,200
# 2
11-19-2012, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by designationxr377 View Post
However, if it worked in a way where a previous submission can still be edited, and then when you want that version updated you can re-submit it for another eval before that version goes live... I can see that too. In fact I see that as a best of both worlds. We keep creative control, the publish to live isn't automatic so Cryptic can still monitor it and control it. Everybody wins.
Yes, I think that's the best way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by designationxr377 View Post
One I didn't talk about was a time requirement. Now that we will have the average counter, it could be obvious how long a mission takes and probably something Cryptic will be able to directly consider rather than infer. That being the case, would the longer Nagorak Epic-esk and so on missions be able to apply?
I think that instead of a set number of missions you have to play for the daily, it instead counts how long you spend doing Foundry missions. The Daily would complete after, say, half an hour. That way people are more likely to pick a "serious" mission, and still don't have to invest a ton of time on it.
Please fix the Foundry lag!
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,699
# 3
11-19-2012, 03:27 PM
Generally speaking I'm fine with it. There some missions, including my spotlight, incidentally, that I am pretty much done with, even if more tech is added. But I'm very much a "finish something and move on" "burn your bridges behind you" sort of person.

Whether a mission gets broken by an update is certainly a concern. Obviously as it stands BranFlakes hasn't been entirely clear. Would like to hear more on the subject.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
# 4
11-19-2012, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
I think that instead of a set number of missions you have to play for the daily, it instead counts how long you spend doing Foundry missions. The Daily would complete after, say, half an hour. That way people are more likely to pick a "serious" mission, and still don't have to invest a ton of time on it.
I tend to agree. There are quite a number of 'epic' missions out there (such as Nagorak's as stated in the OP) which are fantastic, but do not qualify currently for 'spotlighting' due to their length. It would be nice to have the daily credit for Foundry missions based on mission length - say 3 roughly half-hour missions or one 1.5 hour mission. The only trouble is how to avoid exploiting this system (jump into 1.5 hour mission, immediately drop (leaving a one star rating of course ) and collect credit for entire daily).

But back to the OP and address XR377's main concern, honestly I don't think there will be an issue here. If for any of the reasons stated, an author wanted to update their mission, I'm sure Cryptic would be glad to 'unlock' it for them on request - and then review/playtest it before republishing it again. I understand the concern, but I don't think Cryptic will bite the hand that feeds them awesome free content.

Last edited by captainhunter1; 11-19-2012 at 03:45 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,497
# 5
11-19-2012, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainhunter1 View Post
... The only trouble is how to avoid exploiting this system (jump into 1.5 hour mission, immediately drop (leaving a one star rating of course )...
The system knows if you've actually completed a mission or not.

Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
The Defenders - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - [WIP] Commander Rihan
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,085
# 6
11-20-2012, 05:23 AM
I tinkered with this system on Tribble. There's a "remove" button that appears after you submit for featuring. It's apparently there so that you can edit a previously featured mission then resubmit it for featuring.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,820
# 7
11-20-2012, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I tinkered with this system on Tribble. There's a "remove" button that appears after you submit for featuring. It's apparently there so that you can edit a previously featured mission then resubmit it for featuring.
Well if it worked so that the previous version remained online as a spotlight until the new version passed the test... then it'd be perfect.
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Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 8
11-20-2012, 11:09 AM
I have been publishing stories for several years on and off and the simple fact of the matter is once you sell your work it isn't yours any more. They bought what they bought and that is the end of it once the allotted editing process has run its course.

Writers are, by and large, obsessive editors and will NEVER be done with something if they don't have to be. Cryptic also don't have the manpower available to constantly replay these missions every time an author decides "This guy would be better standing a meter and a half this way." Live with it.

Now, missions that break are another matter. Hopefully these missions will be specifically checked as Foundry updates happen. They might also allow a grace period when truly major changes are made that radically effect the way such missions work but even then, the author should (simply out of practicality) expect to have to inform the publisher (Cryptic) of the issue or need to modify and approve it.

Keep in mind that the Foundry is pretty low-priority as things go in STO. I think it should be otherwise, but it is what it is. Any system that allows for altering already spotlighted missions would, by necessity, need to be highly limited to special circumstances.

If this isn't acceptable to you, if a mission is really needing something that isn't available in the Foundry yet--Don't Submit it.
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 9
11-20-2012, 11:40 AM
I really appreciate this discussion and I'm looking forward to reading your feedback as it continues.

As XR-377 deduced, one of the primary reasons for not permitting editing after submitting a mission for featuring is to allow us to control and approve the content that gets spotlighted (i.e. because we're driving players to play it). This is an automatic process once you hit the button, so it will be important that once you do hit it, it's after you've made any final changes/ spelling corrections/ updates, etc., as you won't be able to edit the mission again.

I completely understand the notion that as an author/ artist, "you're never done" -- I would personally want to tweak my mission all the time and make updates. At this time though, bring the first implementation of the system, the mission won't be able to be edited. I'm not saying that this will not change, or it will change, but we're definitely watching for feedback and will take it into consideration for future updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
Whether a mission gets broken by an update is certainly a concern. Obviously as it stands BranFlakes hasn't been entirely clear. Would like to hear more on the subject.
While this is a valid concern, we're not anticipating missions breaking. If there is something that creeps up, we can look at this on a case-by-case basis. All spotlight authors basically have direct access to reaching out to me via the ticket/ email I originally sent to you about being featured. Just reply to the ticket/ email and I'll get it and can investigate

Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I tinkered with this system on Tribble. There's a "remove" button that appears after you submit for featuring. It's apparently there so that you can edit a previously featured mission then resubmit it for featuring.
I'm fairly certain that this button only works up until the time the mission becomes featured. If you submit a mission, but it's not featured yet, you can remove it with this button. So, once we put it up as a spotlight mission, that button becomes disabled.

Side-note: In case you were all wondering, Spotlighted missions still show the original author's name, authors will continue to get Dilithium tips that are submitted during the review stage, and players will still be able to find your mission through normal searches.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,200
# 10
11-20-2012, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the responses, Branflakes. As long editing after featuring is not out of the question for the future, I'm satisfied for now.
Please fix the Foundry lag!
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