Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 191
12-07-2012, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
Energy density doesn't have much to do with it. Defiant has a lot of firepower for its size because unlike a cruiser it DOESN'T have: extensive scientific and medical facilities; large-scale replicators; comfortable passenger capacity in the hundreds; significant cargo bays; significant spare parts and self repair capability.

Defiant is basically the power core of a cruiser strapped to a couple guns and engines and wrapped in a layer of armor. It fights well because that's all it can do. The fundamental inequality of the game's design is that it completely ignores anything that isn't fighting. If the game were more sensibly designed with non-combat gameplay which only cruisers and science ships could do really well at, people wouldn't be so annoyed. You take a fighting ship into a war zone; that's just common sense. But you take a science ship on a research mission, and you take a cruiser when you need the capacity to move, make, or modify a mission payload. If a science ship could outperform anything else on a particle-gathering mission to the same degree that escorts outperform everything else on combat missions, then every ship role should have happy captains.

But combat is a lot easier to design and program. So we are forced into the role of making every ship type perform equally well in a combat environment. Which is absurd but necessary.
Hence the size of a vessel doesn't denote more power but its more important for what purpose the vessel was designed for to begin with that point towards how much power they may have at thier disposal.

That the game is faulty in that the players vessel needs to be good at almost all things to perform was outside the point I was trying to make.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 192
12-07-2012, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
That's exactly why I use an Excelsior hull, and she has definite advantages in combat over her Vorcha counterpart.

Hey Whammy,

I assume you mean the standard RA Vor'cha, because outside of the hull (which is fairly minimal overall) the Fleet Vor'cha is quite possibly the best tactical focused cruiser style ship in the game.

(It's also really fun to fly )

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 193
12-07-2012, 10:29 AM
The size of a ship doesn't necessarily denote how powerful it is, but there are other advantages. The shear mass of Cruisers, and to a lesser extent science vessels, mean they have the ability to seal off massive sections when there are hull breaches and there's room for backup crew for essential positions. Most escorts, on the other hand, suffer crippling damage and losses much easier due to their compact form.

Unfortunately crew is rather worthless right now, practically a forgotten system, and the hull strength of ships has been adjusted for balance (Over adjusted IMO)

Perhaps, instead of resistance or HP buffs, the defense on Cruisers could be adjusted. I'm not talking higher bonuses, but perhaps their defense could drop to 0 when not moving instead of -15 (I think that's the number anyways). This would represent the extra mass of these vessels, relying on their bulk for defense not speed.

If the spread was kept the same, it wouldn't be game breaking but it would increase the survivability when being held or at lower speeds.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,662
# 194
12-07-2012, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I would think its only important if you are a Mayan, as thier end came a long time ago and what was left was absorbed by those that came later.

Besides, the mayans did not have a leap year so is thier calender acurate to the modern roman based calender? I thought the day of apocalypse came and went for them already.
i ll make sure my eppohh wear flea bands nontheless
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,694
# 195
12-07-2012, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackywombat View Post
The size of a ship doesn't necessarily denote how powerful it is, but there are other advantages. The shear mass of Cruisers, and to a lesser extent science vessels, mean they have the ability to seal off massive sections when there are hull breaches and there's room for backup crew for essential positions. Most escorts, on the other hand, suffer crippling damage and losses much easier due to their compact form.
Have you ever parked an escort next to other ships? Last I did my Armitage was aslmost as massive as an Excelsior, my patrol escort and the Prometheus aren't far behind.... Even the Mobius is actually pretty massive as well. Only the Defiant can be said truly be tiny in comparison. Sadly, not ALL Fed warships can be designed by the Emissary....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 196
12-07-2012, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Hey Whammy,

I assume you mean the standard RA Vor'cha, because outside of the hull (which is fairly minimal overall) the Fleet Vor'cha is quite possibly the best tactical focused cruiser style ship in the game.

(It's also really fun to fly )

Hows it going? Long to no see

I was talking Tier 5's to Tier 5's , not the "Fleet" versions. From what I can tell with the Fleet versions, the Excel is tankier because of more hull, while the Vor'cha goes more on the offense with a universal Lt. to be used as tactical (giving up survivability with the sacrifice of a science officer). The maneuverability should be roughly equivalent because the while the Vor'cha has a higher base turn rate, the Excel' has a better inertial rating. It could be pretty much a tossup and down to the players at that point.
Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7
# 197
12-09-2012, 06:39 PM
I think one of the problems, well I see it as a problem. STF's that gain Dilith/Gear rewards only seem to reward those top 3 slots to whomever did the most dmg. I think they need to rework it into subcategories and tally up everything. Would be something like this.

1. Dmg done to enemies +points

2. Dmg received/tanked +points

3. Dmg Healed +points

4. Survival time +points

5. how many deaths incurred -points

Tally up the points he who has the most is 1 respectively

that would let the cruisers have a chance to actually see that leaderboard and not have to give up their favorite ship so they can rank.

Just an idea, thank you for your time.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 198
12-09-2012, 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kharnagex View Post
I think one of the problems, well I see it as a problem. STF's that gain Dilith/Gear rewards only seem to reward those top 3 slots to whomever did the most dmg. I think they need to rework it into subcategories and tally up everything. Would be something like this.

1. Dmg done to enemies +points

2. Dmg received/tanked +points

3. Dmg Healed +points

4. Survival time +points

5. how many deaths incurred -points

Tally up the points he who has the most is 1 respectively

that would let the cruisers have a chance to actually see that leaderboard and not have to give up their favorite ship so they can rank.

Just an idea, thank you for your time.
I think you have fleet actions and Special Task Force missions mixed up. STFs don't increase reward based on performance. Fleet Actions do. But I will just say it now. I have gotten first place on all of the fleet actions that reward dil and gear with my CRUISER. It's all about knowing what to do and when to do it. And copious usage of torpedo spread and beam fire at will.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,757
# 199
12-10-2012, 09:17 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wackywombat View Post
The size of a ship doesn't necessarily denote how powerful it is, but there are other advantages. The shear mass of Cruisers, and to a lesser extent science vessels, mean they have the ability to seal off massive sections when there are hull breaches and there's room for backup crew for essential positions. Most escorts, on the other hand, suffer crippling damage and losses much easier due to their compact form.
I agree, hull is worthless in STO due to how easy it is to destroy it, reheal it and it offers nothing really unless one is hull tanking (which is less effective than shield tanking, imo)
Unfortunately the Cruiser gains nothing from thier mass as far as hull is concerned.
If I had the ability to "Q" things over, I would say give Cruisers way more hull but make Hull BOff Abilities heal both HoT for lower amounts than they do now and increase the damage resistances for Hull instead. Hopefully such would make a Cruiser a vessel you must chew through in pieces until a point of structual integrity is lost and it dies.

An example:
Federation DreadNought Cruiser has 40,000 hull ingame now as a base. I say increase that by 20,000 to make it 60K before the player skills come into effect. Giving Cruisers a high amount of hull that must be chewed through.
At the same time adjust the Hull heals to heal slowly overtime (as adjusted by crew) but offer better resistances to damage.

I feel such would express the sheer mass of the Cruiser well, but it probally just cuase more problems.

Quote:
Unfortunately crew is rather worthless right now, practically a forgotten system, and the hull strength of ships has been adjusted for balance (Over adjusted IMO)
True, crew seems to do nothing really of consequence.
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
RIP
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,976
# 200
12-10-2012, 09:52 AM
Here's an idea:

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
make heals percentage based this would produce the following:
Aux2SIF
!00% Hull = X
Calculate Y% of X
Heal Y% + aux power formula
Add +15% resist all
(Not a direct quote but as it's my own...)

This would make Aux2SIF equally effective on all ships (With the exception of science due to high aux power) however what it would do is make escort pilots have to think a little more about what they are doing and give more or less hull more meaning in the game, the same would obviously apply to shields meaning ships with less defensive stats would be less defensive.
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