Empire Veteran
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Posts: 6,766
# 211
12-11-2012, 08:11 PM
hull is like hitpoints in Ad&D. it represents the sum of damage a vessel can take before it is destroyed not the actual physicality of the vessel itself.
when we shoot a ship we are not striking the entire ship but just the section our beams or cannon fire hit. Therefore the idea that hull has a level of inherent damage resistance to energy weapon fire is not far fetched.

How many times did the Enterprise return to ESD with holes punched in her, heavily damaged but not destroyed becuase of her mass having survived the attacks. How many ships have died to the explosions of just few torpedoes though?

just watching the IP itself sets the president that hull in its sheer mas makes energy weapons a little less effective.

At least thats the gist I get and why I agreed.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 212
12-11-2012, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Except that it doesn't entirely make sense that energy weapons should have a disadvantage against hull. Hull is physical structure, with no special ability to dissipate energy other than physical properties of the material.
Materials, however, can have very special abilities. Materials e.g. can be super conducting, show heat isolating or heat conducting properties. Materials can even reflect energy (a simple mirror reflects light, which is nothing else then electromagnetic irradiation). Assuming, that the material science in the 25 century is more developed as ours, it can be assumed that hull armor can be designed to withstand energy and particle weapons very well.

Torpedos, on the other hand, can kinetically penetrate the hull and do in this way more damage. Most of the torps in ST are antimatter based. Matter and antimatter react inevitably to form energy. In fact, even small amounts of antimatter carry an enormous potential of destruction. 1 g antimatter reacting with matter produces 180 terajoules of energy, which is the equivalent of 43 kilotons of TNT ... a medium sized tactical atomic warhead. The standard photon torpedo in ST is specified to carry about 1.5 kg antimatter. This amount, however, would probably even strip shields and destory an cruiser size star ship with one shot ;-)

Last edited by xiphenon; 12-11-2012 at 11:45 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 32
# 213
12-12-2012, 03:27 AM
@hereticknight085

What you are saying is fully true!
The crew system is totally broken and absolutely not logical.
How can a Defiant fly with ZERO Crew, not only flying also fighting and have a passiv hull repair?

And on the other Hand, Cruiser need ages to regenerate, with much higher amounts of available Docs and Nurses. How many of them are on a Escort?

A total easy fix for that is, set the Crew regen on ships with 100 or less, close to zero and scale this up to higher regen rates with larger crews.
Then introduce a new Engi Lt. Cmdr BOFF skill, "Transfer Crew to Ship 1". So Large ships can replenish the lost lost crew on the smaller ships. With that every escort pilot want to have a big ship in his Group and this give the Cruiser are good advantage to be wanted in a group again! With this the cruiser can play his support role instead of stupid lower-Dps tanker which can do this only with 6/9 in Threat Control skill!

However to make this successfull this means also that there must be a negative Impact on effectivness in Combat and everything if the crew is dead or incapactitated.
Reduce every buff, DPS, Boff Skill by half if the Crew is below 10%, like this: reduce the effectiveness by 5% and increase boff reload times by 2% for every 9% crew loss.
This apply to all ships and all classes, so also Cruiser have to deal with that.
So Cruisers don`t have the spike damage in the beginning of a escort, but in a long fight, they loose only a small percentage in effectivness, where the escort loose more.
It is simply stupid that a Escortt with only an Captain, can do the full damage and have the full maneuverability with a crew of none! Then there is also no Doc which can heal on the tiny or "non-existing" Medical Station. Escorts need support for that, Escorts are build for battle not for an war!

But also remove that stupid Kill X% of Crew from Torpedos and Kinetic Damage and replace it with a more logical system.
It is simply not logical that (as an example) 10 torpedos have the same impact on crew on all ships and crew sizes. Like kill Crew with 10 Torps x 10% on a Defiant and on an Ody....
I know that is not exactly reflecting the game parameters, but you get the point!

One thing mention, the largest Damage Dealers in most other MMO Games are not the Fighters, this is the Mage Class, which are dying like flies if the are hit, because they are made from paper and are protected by paperthin paper.

It feels like the whole tac = Fighter, Engi= Supporter, Sci = Healer/Debuffer is not working anymore. The Tacs can heal like hell even in an escort. The Engi can support which what skills? Uhm let me think, there is none (except the one Captain Skill)... why are they called supporter????
Every Skill can also be used from Tac and Sci because these are only Boff Skill?
Which Engi Boff Commander Skill can be used to support others???
The only definition that works well (more or less) is the SCI, which is also somewhat broken, because a SCI is simply not on par with his debuff/crowd control abilities compared to the missing DPS compared to the Tac.

To be honest, at this moment STO simply don`t need Engi`s and Sci Captains and other ships then escorts. Because everything can be done by Tac in Escorts*!
If this is not meaning that somehting is broken...
*And most of the time a group of 5 Tac/Escort group is better than a 4 Tac/escort group with a non-tac/non-escort and much better if the amount of Tac/escort decreases more than this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 108
# 214
12-12-2012, 11:53 AM
Torpedos should do more damage to shields plan and simple. Possibly tie torpedo recharge times to crew.

Crew regen rate should be set as a percent per second based on initial crew size and more abilities should have thier effects tied to current crew size.

Heals should be affected by either crew size, or percentage based on shied/hull size.
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# 215
12-12-2012, 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Materials, however, can have very special abilities. ;-)
True. It would make sense that any vessel designed for space travel would have materials designed to protect it from said enviroment as much as possible.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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# 216
12-12-2012, 12:36 PM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by guili1 View Post
Then introduce a new Engi Lt. Cmdr BOFF skill, "Transfer Crew to Ship 1".
This begs the question how are the TacTeam, SciTeams and EngTeams getting through shields to help other players?
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,274
# 217
12-12-2012, 12:40 PM
[quote=bitemepwe;7052661]
Quote:
This begs the question how are the TacTeam, SciTeams and EngTeams getting through shields to help other players?
If you know a ships shield frequencies you can get a transporter beam through them with ease, alternatively you can piggyback a transporter signal onto a comm channel
Empire Veteran
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# 218
12-12-2012, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post

If you know a ships shield frequencies you can get a transporter beam through them with ease, alternatively you can piggyback a transporter signal onto a comm channel
Granted thats true if the codes of every starship in the fleet is kept in records on every ship, which has been shown true by Kirk once when He lowered the shields of the vessel Kahn hijacked.
Though it still seems wonky to me to be doing such to transport people in combat. I wonder how many lifes have been lost in STO due to the untimely arrival of a team of helpful friends right before a vessel exploded?


I wonder if a BOff ability could be made to represent an enemy stealing your codes?
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 12-12-2012 at 12:52 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,274
# 219
12-12-2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
I wonder if a BOff ability could be made to represent an enemy stealing your codes?
I suppose you could make it a side effect of VM... The other question is the borg's assimilate ship... they can always seem to beam through your shields
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Posts: 4,656
# 220
12-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Materials, however, can have very special abilities. Materials e.g. can be super conducting, show heat isolating or heat conducting properties. Materials can even reflect energy (a simple mirror reflects light, which is nothing else then electromagnetic irradiation). Assuming, that the material science in the 25 century is more developed as ours, it can be assumed that hull armor can be designed to withstand energy and particle weapons very well.
And, as I said, you can always equip Armor consoles to reflect that special materials are in use to deal with special energy resistance.

Why should we assume that all hulls are specially resistant to energy?

The Enterprise NX was an armored ship, I believe, reflecting the fact that they didn't have shields.

Should a freighter have the same energy resistance as a warship? I don't think so.
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