Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,240
# 371
01-01-2013, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
only one TT and that on spacebar with two other healing skills? I see the window of opportunity for an veteran escort player.
Yeah which between the other skills at my disposal I can fill
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,421
# 372
01-01-2013, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
Yeah which between the other skills at my disposal I can fill
Not if the buffed attack is rightly timed. Then the 3rd attack -or to be precise- the second attack after you used RSP hits a nice window. Of course, even with that scenario you might have a chance with ET1+HE1, but i doubt that will be enough -even with the latent resistence EptS grants- to hold against a nicely buffed bug Even TSS2 might not bolster your shields enough, and the HoT of it is dealt with the turrets alone.

You have a higher chance to survive with a manually triggered TT, giving you more defence cycles than you have now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 108
# 373
01-01-2013, 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Of course, it could also be a matter of focus. Players really need to understand that Escorts destroy one target at a time while cruisers are masters of the furball. I take my engi cruiser to Starbase 24 all the time and assuming no disconnects or lag outs I usually come in first or second, a feat my escort could never hope to accomplish.
Heh, I always get first or second in SB24 on a scort using scatter and spread.

I fly both cruisers and escorts and the escort is just better. Granted a cruiser can park and spit while an escort has to constantly move. But escorts can tank gates and cubes just as well as a cruiser. And rips everything inferior to those apart fast enough tanking or healing is a moot point.

I have recently started playing around with an Aux2B cruiser build which does do more damage, but nothing in this game should be balanced around doff set ups.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,253
# 374
01-01-2013, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Not if the buffed attack is rightly timed. Then the 3rd attack -or to be precise- the second attack after you used RSP hits a nice window. Of course, even with that scenario you might have a chance with ET1+HE1, but i doubt that will be enough -even with the latent resistence EptS grants- to hold against a nicely buffed bug Even TSS2 might not bolster your shields enough, and the HoT of it is dealt with the turrets alone.

You have a higher chance to survive with a manually triggered TT, giving you more defence cycles than you have now.

I don't think the complain is that the escort can blow up a cruiser. I think the complaint was that two cruisers couldn't even get past an escort's shields.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 375
01-01-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I don't think the complain is that the escort can blow up a cruiser. I think the complaint was that two cruisers couldn't even get past an escort's shields.
The problem here is where? Cruisers are not DD. Not if they want to be useful in PvP. PvP and PvE are two entirely different beasts. In PvP you are facing ships like the bug. That ship is designed to be insanely difficult to destroy. Of course two cruisers won't get past a well-specced bugs shields. Hell 3 or 4 probably couldn't. But you take a Fleet Defiant or another bug, and all of a sudden there will be death.

In all honesty, the only reason cruisers are viable damage dealers in PvE is because most enemy NPCs won't use TSS, EPtS, or TT. An experienced player will use all of those. And more. You were pitting a healer up against a damage dealer. The healer ALWAYS loses in that case. And two healers? Anyone who has played WoW, LoL, and other games like that will know you could take 10 healers against a single damage dealer class, especially one that's pretty tanky (Deathknight anyone?) and they will still lose. Badly.

That's just an example of what happened. Now how about this. Change that up to a 2v2. Two escorts vs a cruiser and an escort. I am willing to bet the cruiser and escort will win. Because if they focus the escort, the cruiser will be able to heal with impunity. And if they focus the cruiser, the cruiser just goes defensive and the escort shreds the other two. And if they go 1v1, then the cruiser just needs to throw half it's heals to the escort and keep all power to aux and shields, and stay alive. Then after it's escort has won, it's escort can come over and kill the enemy escort.

All experienced PvPers will tell you that what I just put out is usually what happens. Adam, sorry to say, your ship is built as a kirk ship. It's designed to fly solo in STFs and do alright as damage goes. It can also provide limited support to your team. But if you're going to PvP as a cruiser, you have to go complete support. As in pure healer/support damage. That's just how it is. Tbh, I am not surprised at all that you couldn't break a bug's shields. The Jemmie bug is one of the best PvP escorts in the game. It's designed to take everything and keep on coming. And if it has the jemmie set, you won't kill it. Not as a cruiser, since it will keep your power levels drained, and strip buffs from you all the time. You were out-gunned and out-classed. It happens.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,240
# 376
01-01-2013, 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Adam, sorry to say, your ship is built as a kirk ship. It's designed to fly solo in STFs and do alright as damage goes. It can also provide limited support to your team.
No, it's built to be self sufficient, the last time I built a support ship it fell flat on it's face
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,253
# 377
01-01-2013, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
snip
So basically your saying

1) Cruiser damage output is low
2) In PvP its cool though because your a healer.
I say: Even tho Tholian ships and several other Sci Vessels are actually better at that job.
3) PvE is so easy that it doesn't matter cruisers put out significantly less damage

Because all tac team, EPTS, etc etc do is increase the EHP that needs burned for something to explode without a subnuke.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 378
01-02-2013, 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
So basically your saying

1) Cruiser damage output is low
2) In PvP its cool though because your a healer.
I say: Even tho Tholian ships and several other Sci Vessels are actually better at that job.
3) PvE is so easy that it doesn't matter cruisers put out significantly less damage

Because all tac team, EPTS, etc etc do is increase the EHP that needs burned for something to explode without a subnuke.
And this whole time you've been saying that escorts don't need anything because they are perfectly self-sufficient. I on the other hand am being realistic. Cruisers are crap with what players are trying to do with them. They aren't a damage dealing ship class. They are a support ship class. And as such, if they do anything other than that, they will not excel.

I know that many players groan when they see a cruiser in most settings, because they either half expect it to suck horribly (which many do unfortunately), or they expect it to not do it's job of healing and support (which many also do). There are so many cruisers that try to be damage dealers. But they weren't designed as such.

So yes, I am saying that cruiser damage output is low, but that doesn't matter because they have a purpose in PvP with healing (I don't see any science ship able to burst heal like a cruiser can... something about most science ships cannot run Aux2SIF3 + ET3), and yes, I am saying that PvE is so easy that the lower damage doesn't matter.

And a good cruiser will be almost impossible to destroy without using a ship that is designed solely for combat or without a subnuke. So basically a bug, fleet defiant, or any ship with that level of damage output of course will steam-roll most cruisers, even odysseys. But anything lesser than that, a good cruiser will just gently push away with a small sigh saying "you won't kill me, go bother something else".
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,421
# 379
01-02-2013, 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
And a good cruiser will be almost impossible to destroy without using a ship that is designed solely for combat or without a subnuke. So basically a bug, fleet defiant, or any ship with that level of damage output of course will steam-roll most cruisers, even odysseys. But anything lesser than that, a good cruiser will just gently push away with a small sigh saying "you won't kill me, go bother something else".
I disagree. If the cruiser-player doesnt make a mistake that will be a draw. Than even a bug cant destroy it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 126
# 380
01-02-2013, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Basically you want a -now comes a german expression- "eierlegende Wollmilchsau", which is basically a combination of hen, cow,pig and sheep, giving milk and wool, laying eggs, as well as giving huge amounts of meet.

Here you just want a imba ship, capable of tanking as hell and firing like theres no tomorrow. Thats just imbalanced. A cruiser can tank two escorts, a escorts cant do that. With your suggestion a tank could not only tank two escorts, but also destroy them. That is ridiculous! Cruiser are not meant to be the damage dealers. But with the right build you can. Not as much as escorts, but than again, you have a way better defence.
I'd give it to the Cruisers, but with one requirement: it takes up an LTC and/ or CMDR Engineering slots and has a slight increase in weapon drain so that EPtW is a must. That way they lose a big part of the resists they get from high end Engineering abilities like EPtS3, ASIF23 and heals like ETS etc, and are limited in the Engineering abilities they run lower down the tiers in the way that Escorts are.
If they want to deal damage like an Escort then their ability to shrug off huge amounts of fire should be reduced to near Escort levels, too.
_________________________________________
Concessimus etiam omnibus liberis hominibus regni nostri, et dedit pro nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum, quibus libertates subscriptas, habendas et tenendas eis et heredibus suis de nobis et heredibus nostris in perpetuum.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:00 PM.