Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 641
01-18-2013, 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Except for the fact that escorts can also use it. You already have them running around with those masses of tac consoles/BOff slots and DHCs. Now imagine if they got 30 seconds of an addition 20% energy damage from EPtW. Not a pretty sight.

The next recourse would be to make it cruiser only, but then you would have the masses of escort pilots making noise while the cruiser captains preened themselves, and the whole mess would just flip around as it became Cruisers Online once again.
New power type based around cruisers being able to bring additional auxilliary reactors online (make it a Lc/Cmd slot only) perhaps?.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 642
01-18-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Not a bad thought, but just to play DA, what innate ability would scorts get? Because you know if you're handing them out to Sci and Cruisers, the scort pilots will want one too.
Innate bonus to evasive maneuvers?

Basic versions of Attack Patterns?

Basic Versions of TS and HYT?

CRF/CSV?

BO/FAW?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,280
# 643
01-18-2013, 01:00 PM
The best way to buff cruisers is to buff beams as well.

Heavy Beam Array (Cruiser Only and some Sci Vessels like Nebula perhaps)
9 Energy Drain
240 Arc (10 less than standard)
+5% accuracy
200 base damage (base is 100 for standard beam array)
Fires 2 pulses per cycle (instead of 4 like standard beam array)
Forward Mount Only

Give cruisers an innate 10% damage reduction as well that applies to all damage before shields and/or hull resists are taken into account. Done, fixed.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,249
# 644
01-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Not a bad thought, but just to play DA, what innate ability would scorts get? Because you know if you're handing them out to Sci and Cruisers, the scort pilots will want one too.

Not to mention that the "Target Subsystem I" skills really don't seem to add a heck of a lot of benefit. The disable effect happens rarely enough that I normally don't bother adding them to my power bar. (I should get around to putting them in a keybind with "Fire all energy weapons" though...)
I don't fly escorts all that often, so it's hard to say. I want to say 'Attack Patterns', but I suspect that would be redundant. Same with weapon powers.

Maybe MES? If cloaks are so very beneficial on escorty type ships, then a degree of stealth would be fairly common feature for them, or so one would think. Perhaps some new type of evasive manoeuvre, that made them harder to hit (though not faster, like the regular one). Dunno, I'm reaching here.

I agree that the innate 'Target Subsystem' powers aren't all that useful right now, but it's still 4 Boff powers that they didn't have to pay for; would be nice if they got a buff someday.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 645
01-18-2013, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
I don't fly escorts all that often, so it's hard to say. I want to say 'Attack Patterns', but I suspect that would be redundant. Same with weapon powers.
APs would not be redundant at all given the uptime relationships between them all. The big hiccups would be that APs are not ensign level powers, and that a free APO1 would be a huge boost.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,249
# 646
01-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
APs would not be redundant at all given the uptime relationships between them all. The big hiccups would be that APs are not ensign level powers, and that a free APO1 would be a huge boost.
Hmmm... OK.

So, 'too much', rather than 'redundant' then.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,477
# 647
01-18-2013, 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Hmmm... OK.

So, 'too much', rather than 'redundant' then.
If one looks at strictly the subsystem targeting, yes. Throw the sensor scan into the mix though, and things get a bit more...murky.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,596
# 648
01-18-2013, 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
*snip*
There's actually an interesting thread going on in the PvP forum discussing precisely this. I don't currently remember the exact thread name, but it basically looks at captain abilities and ship built-in abilities, and there are interesting suggestions on what abilities could be given to escorts and cruisers that are similar to SST and SA on science ships.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,249
# 649
01-18-2013, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
There's actually an interesting thread going on in the PvP forum discussing precisely this. I don't currently remember the exact thread name, but it basically looks at captain abilities and ship built-in abilities, and there are interesting suggestions on what abilities could be given to escorts and cruisers that are similar to SST and SA on science ships.
Remove current Captain Abilities from the game. Pretty interesting discussion.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,233
# 650
01-18-2013, 06:07 PM
I think the problem is one of role. The Tank/Healer/DPS paradigm breaks down in space combat. There is no "taunt." There is no clear indicator of who has threat, who is going to get threat, and who wants threat. There are not many reliable ways to drop threat. Without being able to control threat being "tanky" is not a bonus, it becomes a liability because the opportunity cost of just doing more DPS is too great.

If I had a magic wand and could go back in time and rewrite the game, I would make some changes to the base roles of ships. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of going to a tank/heals/dps model, so I would make escorts roughly the same as they are now, but without the ability to load heavy explosives. They would focus on dual cannons and light torps. Cruisers would gain/not lose the ability to load heavy explosives like tric mines and such. Sci ships would maintain their middle-road status, loading heavier explosives then escorts but not able to mach a cruiser. Then space could be around escorts and sci ships providing suport to the big heavy cruisers to escort them to the "goal territory" where they could unleash the pain on the objectives. Everybody would have a role that made sense and things wouldn't feel like a stale carbon copy of every other MMO out there. In PvP you would have a natural need to attack a cruiser, because if you didn't they would unleash hell on your "base" or "gate" or whatever you were protecting.

It's kinda late for such a revolutionary change. Stripping high explosives from such a large portion of the playerbase is certian not to go well. Seeing as that is not a great option, cruisers need a taunt, the threat skill in the skill tree needs to go away, and threat scaleing consoles need to start earlier in the game then fleet embasys. If we move threat to consoles instead of skills, then you get to choose based on ship. If we have threat consoles starting earlier in the game, then new people leveling can be exposed to the concept and be prepared for in at end game when it matters. Threat consoles should have a visual marker so other players can identify at a glance "I'm a tank, I'm geared up to get hit."

The rest is on players at that point. If you give players the tools to mange their threat, and ships designed to soak up hits, and the tools to identify who is in what role, then the players will figure out the rest. Well, the good ones anyway. The poor ones will charge in with a skittle-shooter and blow the generators on the wrong side regardless =P
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
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