Excuse me, but a non-P2W premade will do just the same to an average PUG?

A B'rel is powerful, but far from invincible. P2W, possibly, but far from the cries of much worse things. Even so, a B'rel can be countered by a slew of non-P2W things, even average, everyday BOFF and captain abilities. Even if it couldn't be, the tric mines I drop are quite vulnerable as well to a number of powers.


Besides, P2W is an overused term sometimes, true or not, the more important issue lies with overpowered or not, which there are quite a few.

P2W Brel ? lol

I have heard it all now....

Couple notes... many long time players aquired there brels back when the brel was free to players with an in game token... that could purchase the brel the klink sci ship or the karfi carrier.... Only recently have they been cstore only.

Also the brel is no more p2w then (93% of the fed) (86.6% of the klink) ships....

Here is the list of NONE p2w ships if we are calling the brel p2w...

Klink side these 4 ships....
Hegh'ta - Qin - Negh'Var - Vo'quv Carrier

Fed Side these 6 ships...
Assault - Star Crus - Patrol - advanced - Deep space - Recon

If the brel is p2w then so is every ship not listed above.
To be clear that would be the other 43 fed ships...
and 30 klink ships.

Of course. But that is true for everything. Vent Theta Radiation can be countered by Hazard Emitters, for example. And so on.

But those items that could be, by some standards, seen as OP are distributed among P2W and F2P stuff. I mean, just look at Tac captain powers like APA an GDF, or boff abilities like EPTS1.

I did not want to criticize the use of B'rels. They are fun ships, and probably could even use a slight buff.

But you need to spend Zen or have to have paid a subscription for getting one, which fits into the definition of "P2W", and that makes the original post's assessment somewhat self-contradictory. It's more a matter of balancing more useful ("OP") and less useful ("UP") abilties in the game.

Which might be addressed by the power revamp that Borticus had mentioned to be planned for December.

Don't be daft... you are well aware of what constitutes what the majority of players will agree is p2w... as far as people mean p2w to be an ugly term.

As I pointed out EVERY single ship you fly outside of the original 10 end game ships are by the same definition P2W.....

Think of it this way if it came on a lowbie ship you purchased for no other reason then to aquire a console that you could then put on your end game ship its .... p2w.

If you purchased a key or purchased a key from someone who purchased a key to open a box to retrieve a console from another box... or a ship from the same box... or you used your in game EC to purchase those items from people that puchased a key to open a box... Its P2W.

Ships that come from the Cstore... have in general been mostly balanced... until recently. At some point Cryptic sold there souls and started adding crazy consoles to end game ships as well, as extra boff stations and extra console slots...
The Brel comes from a different time when Cstore Ships where in general saddled with draw backs to pay for there uniqueness.... yes its true though before people complained about Vestas and Time ships there was the intrepid... and before people complained about bugs there was defiant... The Brel was complained about hard before it was even released and the inital versions where so terrible that they where a joke beyond joke... its only since the F2P change over that they where unnerfed... and are now only a slightly funny joke.

Anyway why am I arguing with you anyway... you refuse to ever see points other then the one you came in with.

Indeed. Overpowered, doesn't play favorites, you could say.

You have a point with me sounding contradictory in what I am saying, but the main topic of the thread still holds, in that my eyes were opened, and I understand much more the reasons why PvPers hold so many things in the 'OP' status.

On my B'rel though, I actually wasn't using it earlier when I PvPed.

I admit, a power revamp might be a very good step in the right direction for bringing balance back into the game.

Another point on the topic of 'P2W' is that there really is very few things in the game you can pay to win in the first place. PvP is one potentially, but PvE content, as is often said on these forums, so easy you can do it without really trying if you are good enough. Aside from that, not too many choices.

Season 7 might help, but even Into the Hive and Hive Onslaught as our new STFs, while more difficult, are far from being so hard as to 'require' pay to win stuff.

But please consider: Your "OP" list might differ quite a lot from another chap's. "OP" is used synonymously to "something I had not prepared my ship for" by some.

Is there a set of objectively measureable criteria to determine if something is "OP"?

I suppose not, such a thing would require a thread here a hundred pages long or more to truly decide what 'OP' would be in this game.

Even if others didn't agree on what was OP or not, no one can be expected to have the same opinions as others.

My B'rel might be considered OP by some, and not by others. As I consider SNB DOFFs, there might be someone who doesn't.

Regardless, OP is in the eye of the beholder is the simplest way of putting it.

Again, point from all this, is I gained an understanding, of WHY some things are considered overpowered, not really so much as to what 'overpowered' might mean, that's all, nothing more, nothing less.

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!