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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
Much has been said about the unfairness of the new dilithium sink into General Recruitment and Reassign Underperforming Personnel, so I don't want to start another thread about that. However, I think the costs in common duty officers for the Embassy is probably a tell as to how the "conversion" to all common DOff requirements in the Starbase Projects is going to go.

The patch notes said most of the uncommon or better DOff requirements will change to common: "All Green, Blue and Purple quality requirements on Duty Officers were reduced to White quality requirements. These changes in quality and relative value haves led to many requirements increasing in number of items required, but not in overall cost.

So, what IS the "overall cost" of 200 Rare non-civilian duty officers in common non-civilian duty officers? How about the equivalent in commons for 1 Very Rare Department-Specific or Race-Specific Duty Officer.

I think that making it cost to get commons is certainly directly related to "reducing" the requirements to all common duty officers. And oh btw, it now costs 10,000 common non-civilian officers instead of 100 rares.

Please someone tell me I'm wrong. Anyone know what the conversion rate is at any of the tiers? Or will this be a surprise tomorrow?


This sounds like the fleet DOffs to me all over again. First "We gave you an opportunity to use fleet marks to get the DOffs you need for starbase projects" Then "There's a bug and they can't be used for fleet projects anymore" Then "We fixed the the starbase DOffs, but had to take away all dilithium rewards for dismissing all DOffs in order to let you do that. But hey, you asked to be able to submit Fleet Doffs, and we gave you what you asked for."
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Vice Admiral Moogie, U.S.S. Acquisition
Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,053
# 2
11-12-2012, 08:42 AM
"Overall cost" refers to a mostly-internal metric we use to measure the relative value of different items within the Holdings system. Every Project is assigned a target "overall cost" and the Design team determines what requirements to place on the Project in order to meet that cost.

For the recent changes, the value given to a White Doff in these calculations was increased to about 166% its previous value. Green Doff relative value went up to about 133% of its previous. But at the same time, we shifted most quality requirements down to White. Since a Blue or a Purple was previously (and still is) valued higher than a White, the number of inputs required had to increase in order to meet the targeted "Overall cost" for the projects that were altered.

Does that clarify at all? Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet.
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Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Systems Design
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Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 15
# 3
11-12-2012, 08:51 AM
A roundabout way of saying, the numbers are big? Big enough to cause your small fleet to fold, coupled with crippling dilithium and mark generation.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 301
# 4
11-12-2012, 08:53 AM
Are we still gonna have projects that require us to buy say 7500 shield generators or will it use something we can buy less of to spend the same amount. I don't mind dropping the EC on the project but I don't like taking 20 min to drop the EC on the project and buying 7500 of anything 50 at a time is just ridiculous and it still we be even when we can buy them 100 at a time. I'm referring to one of the T3 military projects btw.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
# 5
11-12-2012, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
"Overall cost" refers to a mostly-internal metric we use to measure the relative value of different items within the Holdings system. Every Project is assigned a target "overall cost" and the Design team determines what requirements to place on the Project in order to meet that cost.

For the recent changes, the value given to a White Doff in these calculations was increased to about 166% its previous value. Green Doff relative value went up to about 133% of its previous. But at the same time, we shifted most quality requirements down to White. Since a Blue or a Purple was previously (and still is) valued higher than a White, the number of inputs required had to increase in order to meet the targeted "Overall cost" for the projects that were altered.

Does that clarify at all? Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet.
Clarifies what is meant by cost, but still doesn't really say what it is. So white's are now 166% of their previous value; ok, I get that. So how many whites=1 green, or 1 blue, or 1 purple, etc.

Although Purples may be valued higher in your metrics, even if you only change the project requirements to the direct substitution, (let's say 10 whites to 1 green kind of value), the result will make white DOffs that much more desirable, expensive, and increase the likelihood of paying dilithium for general recruitment cadres and zen for doff packs. So... I see the logic from the business standpoint, but I don't think many players have really thought about what this could mean.

Can you share any or all of the following?
  1. The metric itself in terms of DOff's values (10 whites = 1, 1 green = 10 blue, 1 blue = 10 purple?)
  2. For the starbase project requiring 100 blue non-civilian DOffs today, how many common DOffs will it be tomorrow?
  3. For the starbase project requiring 15 purple civilian DOffs today, how many common DOffs will it be tomorrow?

So, brew another pot of coffee and get back to me when you've finished. I can't do percentages without my first pot of coffee - and I'm just finishing mine.
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Vice Admiral Moogie, U.S.S. Acquisition
Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.

Last edited by blackjackwidow; 11-12-2012 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Corrected 'either or both' when referring to 3 choices. Need more coffee...
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 6
11-12-2012, 09:36 AM
This post is a bit confusing, the patch notes said all SB projects were changed to white quality Doffs, borticus is saying most projects where changed to white. So which ones still have higher quality Doff reqs?

The change to white Doffs really only made sense for the daily missions and not so much the upgrades.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,072
# 7
11-12-2012, 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
"Overall cost" refers to a mostly-internal metric we use to measure the relative value of different items within the Holdings system. Every Project is assigned a target "overall cost" and the Design team determines what requirements to place on the Project in order to meet that cost.

For the recent changes, the value given to a White Doff in these calculations was increased to about 166% its previous value. Green Doff relative value went up to about 133% of its previous. But at the same time, we shifted most quality requirements down to White. Since a Blue or a Purple was previously (and still is) valued higher than a White, the number of inputs required had to increase in order to meet the targeted "Overall cost" for the projects that were altered.

Does that clarify at all? Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet.
Basically ... Small to mid-sized fleets remain frakked.

A HUGE thank you to Cryptic for the Mogh-class battle cruiser!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 85
# 8
11-12-2012, 10:35 AM
More importantly, will doff generation ever be equalized by department, or will they still be generated based on specialization, screwing over Tactical, Engineering, and Medical doffs?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,118
# 9
11-12-2012, 10:58 AM
They are generated by Doff power actually, which is why security officer rate is so abysmal and the dozen warfare specialists just never stop coming.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 377
# 10
11-12-2012, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genhauk View Post
Basically ... Small to mid-sized fleets remain frakked.
I think any size fleets will be ... overwhelmed ... with the cost in common DOffs. Agree with another poster regarding the need to change the requirements. Personally, I can fill all the purple requirements myself if need be. Anyone in a small-to-mid-sized fleet could as well, if they are willing to do DOff missions for a bit. There are plenty of missions that reward purple duty officers.

I believe we are going to see some massive amounts of required common duty officers, especially for those just hitting the Tier III projects. That's why I am trying to find out - do I spend dilithium now and break down all my purples for the next 20 hours or so, before it's going to cost me ridiculous amounts of dilithium to 'recruit' duty officers (side note - doesn't it seem odd captains should have to pay dilithium to Starfleet in order to get unknown and untested new graduates?).

Or, as has been hinted, will some of those projects retain the purple quality duty officer requirements. I don't know which would be worse or make me unhappiest - breaking down all my extra purples to find out that they were needed, or turning in loads to convert to purple just to find out that I need to break them down (at a loss of 2 DOffs at a time).

If one upgrading one of the Tier 1 Embassy projects requires 400 common civilians, and a Tier III SB project requires 120 uncommon (green) - then how many common non-civilians will we need for that project after tomorrow? What about the 100 rare (blue) needed to upgrade each arm to Tier IV?

I shudder to think. Everyone is (rightly) concerned about the Omega conversion, I think this change PLUS charging dilithium to GET the commons, on top of the dilithium needed for the projects, is going to hit harder for - those in fleets, anyway.
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Vice Admiral Moogie, U.S.S. Acquisition
Rule of Acquisition #57: Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them.
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