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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,965
# 1 Defense not Stacking
10-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Release Notes: October 3, 2013

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...php?p=12672871

  • Subterfuge
    • The Stealth bonus granted no longer stacks.
    • Only the highest bonus will apply.
    • The Defense bonus still stacks.

While it's great that the +Stealth stacking issue was fixed (nerfed/+Defense added back in March, fine through LoR, broken some time after LoR)...the +Defense was added because of that change to the +Stealth mechanics on the BOFFs back in March.

There was no mention that the +Def would no longer stack and the notes even specifically state that it will still stack.

It doesn't.

Elusive Trait (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)

Gets you to a base of +70% on a Warbird (they do not have the +10% Escort Bonus).

Aegis Engine (+5%) takes you to +75%.

Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%) and 3x Subterfuge (+7.5%, +2.5% each) should take you to +85%, but it takes you to +80%. Infiltrator stacks with a single Subterfuge. The two other Subterfuge are not stacking. Subterfuge +Def no longer stacks.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
# 2
10-03-2013, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Release Notes: October 3, 2013

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...php?p=12672871

  • Subterfuge
    • The Stealth bonus granted no longer stacks.
    • Only the highest bonus will apply.
    • The Defense bonus still stacks.

While it's great that the +Stealth stacking issue was fixed (nerfed/+Defense added back in March, fine through LoR, broken some time after LoR)...the +Defense was added because of that change to the +Stealth mechanics on the BOFFs back in March.

There was no mention that the +Def would no longer stack and the notes even specifically state that it will still stack.

It doesn't.

Elusive Trait (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)

Gets you to a base of +70% on a Warbird (they do not have the +10% Escort Bonus).

Aegis Engine (+5%) takes you to +75%.

Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%) and 3x Subterfuge (+7.5%, +2.5% each) should take you to +85%, but it takes you to +80%. Infiltrator stacks with a single Subterfuge. The two other Subterfuge are not stacking. Subterfuge +Def no longer stacks.
I can confirm that this is sadly the case. Following today's patch, with all of my BOFFs in place, 4 Romulans and 1 Reman...all with Subterfuge...my defense reads 80.1. I can remove all of my Romulan BOFFs, and leave just one lonely Reman with Superior Infiltrator and Subterfuge...my defense reads steady at 80.1. If I replace all of my Romulan BOs...4 of them...and remove my Reman, my defense score drops to 76.4, because of the loss of the Superior Infiltrator trait from my Reman BO. If I remove all BOs, my defense reads 73.9. Clearly, +Defense is no longer stacking from the Subterfuge trait. Yesterday, my defense, with all of these same BOFFs, was 92.6! It seems that something else may be wrong as well, because if I add 12.5 (5 x 2.5 for subterfuge on my BOFFs) and 3.8 for my Reman BOs Superior Infiltrator, to today's base (with no BOs slotted) of 73.9, that only adds up to 90.2. In any case, Subterfuge got borked today! I hope that they fix it soon!

Last edited by captainmorris001; 10-03-2013 at 01:12 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 966
# 3
10-03-2013, 01:24 PM
You know, this bug may be a good thing. Romulans are so OP, time to have them nerfed somewhat. Speaking as someone who has invested well over 500 million ec on my Romulan Captain, I agree with the nerf.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 726
# 4
10-03-2013, 01:50 PM
man great job again cryptic


need more good programmers?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,965
# 5
10-03-2013, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
You know, this bug may be a good thing. Romulans are so OP, time to have them nerfed somewhat. Speaking as someone who has invested well over 500 million ec on my Romulan Captain, I agree with the nerf.
It's not a nerf when the notes explicitly state that it should stack. It's a bug.

And again, the +Def was the give part of the give/take that took place with removing the +Stealth stacking and +Stealth as a % instead of flat number that took place back in March.

And again, Warbirds do not have the +10% Escort Bonus.

Elusive (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
Escort (+10%)
3x Embassy Sub BOFFs (+7.5%)
= +87.5%

Elusive (+10%)
9 Maneuvers (+15%)
24+ Impulse (+45%)
5x Romulan Sub BOFFs (+12.5%)
Captain Infiltrator (+2.5%)
= +87.5%

But wait, VD - you went with 5x Rom Sub instead of 5x Rem Sub/Sup Infil...try that out. Okay, sure...you'd be looking at 106.5% Bonus Defense. For each Rom Sub/Sup Op you give up for that Rem Sub/Sup Infil, you're giving up +2% CrtH, +5% CrtD, and the recharge reduction on Cloaking.

What's the difference in To-Hit between that 87.5% and 106.5%? Say the person had Accurate (+10%), 9 Targeting (+15%), [Acc]x3 weapons (+30%)...+55% Bonus Accuracy.

@87.5%...75.5% to-hit.
@106.5%...66% to-hit.

+19% Defense resulted in a -9.5% to-hit.

But wait, that's unbuffed. Let's cloak 'em!

@137.5...54.8% to-hit.
@156.5...49.6% to-hit.

+19% Defense resulted in a -5.2% to-hit.

And again, you're giving up the +2% CrtH, +5% CrtD...

Sure, I agree it's problematic when you drop a Rom/Rem in a lockbox or cloned ship - cause the Rom/Rem crew will be superior than the Fed/KDF crew. That's a separate issue though. The Warbirds do not have the +10% Escort Bonus Defense...doesn't matter if you're in a T'varo, Dhelan, Mogai...there's no bonus. The +Def stacking is part of that balance for those ships. That lockbox ships are fubar...that I can make the joke that the R'Mor are more better than the Wells/Korath - is a separate issue, no?

But in the end, the /epicfacepalm comes from the patch notes stating specifically that the +Def will stack - and - it no longer stacking.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 164
# 6
10-04-2013, 01:19 PM
I can confirm that too. Over 10% Defense are missing on my tac rommie ! Great Job !
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8
# 7 Verifying
10-04-2013, 04:10 PM
Bugs happen. It's computer code.

Verifying that the Defensive Bonus is not stacking. 3 of 3 Captains using at least 2 Romulan Bridge Officer with Superior Subterfuge trait (+3.8% defense)...only +3.8% bonus to defense.

Regards,
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
# 8
10-05-2013, 11:42 AM
And not only that, but any Bridge Officer Romulan of Embassy reduces the Defense bonus.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,471
# 9
10-05-2013, 02:27 PM
I wiish rommies had a max defense bonus of 50%. I really do.
I want an official persistent officer title.
**~Reality under scrutiny~**
@haudace
UFP Fleet: Operation Omega Task Force | KDF Fleet: KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 164
# 10
10-06-2013, 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kagepwe View Post
Bugs happen. It's computer code.
Yes. But:
Stating something will be functioning, not testing it before holodeck patch and then wondering it is not functioning should not be the way to go.
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