Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
# 171
11-14-2012, 04:36 AM
Seriously Cryptic, do something! You can't lie to your customers like this... I wonder how my customers would react if I was lying like this...

You seriously cut all the fun from one of your best content: STF. We had so much fun with them with our fleet! No there's no interest.

You should put back some loot and/or dilithium as you stated during the test period!a

Last edited by aktarys; 11-14-2012 at 04:43 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 172
11-14-2012, 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Anti-social is still social. Anti-social and un-social are opposites, as much as social and un-social are. Social doesn't need to be friendly is ultimately what I'm getting at.

What academic work I've read on MMOs suggests that the typical player wants other players around them but doesn't really want to coordinate or engage in combat with those other players. They want them around and they want the interaction to be indirect but pervasive.
Lol,

Faux-Intellectualism, I knew I'd come across it eventually.

Anti-Social is any act that is damaging, i.e. takes away from Social interaction. Unsocial is merely the avoidance of social interaction. Being social is actually meant to be read as being "pro-social" and that is how everyone currently interprets the phrase "being social". Being social requires being friendly to foster and compel beneficial social interaction from others.

When you say academic work, if you don't quote or reference original sources, it's meaningless and simply comes off as someone trying to legitimize their line of argument by making others believe it is authority and substantiated by dropping a word like academic.

It's not hard to read a few articles on the matter.

Disclaimer: Historically all MMORPG studies tend to be from relatively small data sample pools.

Here are some interesting statistics to crunch.

Quote:
Most played MMORPGs. The most-played MMORPGs
were World of ******** (48.9%), City of Heroes
(7.6%), Ultima Online (4.5%), EverQuest 2 (4.1%),
Lineage II (3.8%), ********* (3.7%), Guild Wars
(3.1%), and Blade Mistress (3%). Another 58 games
were named and comprised the remaining 21.4%
most-played MMORPGs. World of ******** was
significantly more popular among female (60.5%)
than male (44.1%) participants (2 117.3, p
0.001).

Hours of MMORPG play per week. The mean average
time spent playing per week was 22.85 h
(SD 17.95). Males (23.3 h) played slightly more
hours per week than females (21.7 h), but this difference
was not significant (t 1.28, p 0.2). Figure
1 shows the distribution of hours played per
week by all players. It indicates that 3.6% of claim to play 60 hours per week.

Social Interactions in Massively Multiplayer
Online Role-Playing Gamers
HELENA COLE, B.Sc. and MARK D. GRIFFITHS, Ph.D.

Link
Currently by DStahl's estimate we all need to be playing a minimum of 20 hours dilithium content orientated (not STF's) per week per character... which is completely out of whack with the research above that states the average weekly game time is a mere 22.85 hours per week. Let us also remember that due to Dilithium gating such time cannot be split over two days in a weekend and must be split over all 5 days Stahl cites as being required. If the intended aim of the changes was to get end game players to get more Dilithium over a short amount of time their model is critically flawed.


Quote:
Social activities of gamers
Friendships within MMORPGs.
Approximately
three quarters of both males (76.2%) and females
(74.7%) said they had made good friends within the
game. The mean number of ?good friends? made
within a MMORPG for participants was seven.
Males were found to have significantly more good
friends than females (7.7 versus 3.1; t 3.06, p
0.002). Results showed that females (55.4%) were
significantly more likely than males (37.6%) to have
met up with online friends in real life (2 23.1, p
0.001). Participants were also asked in what situations
they were most likely to meet up with other
players socially. Table 1 shows the five different categories
of situations and the number of times such
meetings happened. It should be noted that individuals
may have met online friends in one or more
situation. Males were significantly more likely than
females to meet up with online friends at a LAN
meeting (2 13.5, p 0.001), but there were no
other gender differences.

Social Interactions in Massively Multiplayer
Online Role-Playing Gamers
HELENA COLE, B.Sc. and MARK D. GRIFFITHS, Ph.D.

Link
From this study we can see that your final sentence is also seemingly flawed as over 70% of respondents confirmed that they had made good friends and enjoyed interacting with them.

Let us look at another study,

Quote:
Only For Teenagers?

The stereotype that only teenagers partake in these environments discourages broader interest in studying these environments. Indeed, the Journal of Adolescence recently dedicated an entire special issue to the topic of video game violence (February, 2004), fostering the stereotype that adults don?t engage in these kinds of activities, or that somehow adolescents interact with video games in an entirely different way from how adults interact with them. Data from Griffiths? study [27] as well my survey study [28] challenge that stereotype. The average age of MMORPG respondents was 26.57 (n = 5509, SD = 9.19); the median was 25, with a range from 11 to 68. The lower and upper quartile boundaries were 19 and 32 respectively. Thus, in fact only 25% of MMORPG users are teenagers.

Many MMORPG users have stable careers and families of their own [28]. 50% of respondents (n = 2846) worked full-time, 36% were married, and 22% had children. The data showed that teenagers, college students, early adult professionals, middle-aged homemakers, as well as retirees were part of these environments. Indeed, these seemingly disparate demographic groups would oftentimes be collaborating and working together to achieve the same goals similar to the ones mentioned earlier. This finding is particularly striking given that these disparate demographic groups seldom collaborate in any real life situation.

Time Investment

The demographic reality of these environments is important to establish to frame the significance of the following data on usage patterns. Users spend on average 22.72 hours (n = 5471, SD = 14.98) each week in their chosen MMORPG. The lower quartile and upper quartile boundaries were 11 and 30 respectively.
The distribution showed that about 8% of users spend 40 hours per week or more in these environments the equivalent of a normal work week. The significant amount of time that users are willing to invest in these environments is further highlighted by the finding that 60.9% of respondents (n = 3445) had spent at least 10 hours continuously in an MMORPG. The correlation between age and hours spent per week was not significant, implying that the appeal of these environments is comparable for high-school students, middle-aged professionals and retirees.

The Psychology of Massively Multi-User Online
Role-Playing Games:
Motivations, Emotional Investment, Relationships and Problematic Usage
by Nicholas Yee

[ Yee, N. (2006). The Psychology of MMORPGs: Emotional Investment, Motivations, Relationship Formation, and Problematic Usage. In R. Schroeder & A. Axelsson (Eds.), Avatars at Work and Play: Collaboration and Interaction in Shared Virtual Environments (pp. 187-207). London: Springer-Verlag. ]


Link
As you can see from this 2nd study the hours per week is exactly the same, perhaps they used the same dataset for that calculation, but look at the average economic demography of players, yes 50% of people playing work full time and 36% are married. This tells you if STO is typical that at least 50% are of our player base is already at peak investment in hours and time. Thus an extension to time required to achieve the end-game rewards we have the effect of turning off many of these players.

There are no doubt countless other surveys and academic work but these two were the most popular hits on google... and though they are dated (2006/2007) one assumes the demographic in western markets has not changed in their social habits in any great way.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 11-14-2012 at 04:42 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 430
# 173
11-14-2012, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
You don't "convert" Zen to Dilithium. You trade it with other players. Cryptic does not earn anything from that.


Could everyone just lean back and think for a moment... do you play the game for the Dilithium? No, you play it for entertainment. Dilithium is just a tiny part of the game.

Besides, to me it looks as if it will actually be easier to get Dilithium by doing the standard fleet actions.
Nice and pretentious there, answering your own question for everyone.

It's grinding, after I've done the same mission for the 50th time, I am, at that point, most certainly ONLY doing it for the rewards. If the rewards that I want go from that particular grind, I stop doing that particular grind.
Joined August 2008
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,342
# 174
11-14-2012, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cormoran View Post
Nice and pretentious there, answering your own question for everyone.
That you don't play for the DIl, but for the thrill? Hell, if that's different for you, I have a job for you. At pre-season-7 STF pay rate, I am sure I will find a way to get rich from your work.

Quote:
It's grinding, after I've done the same mission for the 50th time, I am, at that point, most certainly ONLY doing it for the rewards. If the rewards that I want go from that particular grind, I stop doing that particular grind.
And why would that be bad, then?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 71
# 175
11-14-2012, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jexsamx View Post
Explain this train of thought to me.

"People are refining a lot less Dillthium than we expected... Let's remove it directly from STF's, make it take a lot longer to get via Foundry, and remove the extra 1440 from B'tran. Now they'll refine a lot more!"
This. How is removing our ways to get dilithium going to make us refine MORE?

And why bother to tell your players that they will be getting dilithium from STF's and then
simply take it out? It's like the worst move you could have made. Just come out and tell us
what we already know - that the point of all this is to make us buy zen and convert to
dilithium. Stop with the sugar-coated lies and just be straight with your playerbase.
------------------------------------------------
Joined in March, 2011. Lifer since December, 2011.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,342
# 176
11-14-2012, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestormsong View Post
This. How is removing our ways to get dilithium going to make us refine MORE?
[...]
That's not what he wrote. It will remove the phenomenon of some users getting tons and tons of dilithium, while the increase in average Dil per session will come from things like the increased rewards for fleet actions like Starbase 24, Gorn Minefield, Klingon Scout Force or Federation Mine Field.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 337
# 177
11-14-2012, 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
fleet actions like Starbase 24, Gorn Minefield, Klingon Scout Force or Federation Mine Field.
but those fleet actions are SUCK, while STF's are GREAT.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,611
# 178
11-14-2012, 05:32 AM
im 1 of the few F2P that spends money on this game and have decided not to spend any more cash because of the changes to rewards in the so called end game content. i dont wont to kill klingons to earn dilithium i wont to kill borg, or any over race thats not klingons . in this game you start with klingons so why would i wont to go back to them .
i did spend ?40.00 UK Pounds a month about $55 US Dollers say good bye to it.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 315
# 179
11-14-2012, 05:36 AM
18 odd pages of the playerbase voicing concerns about whats happened since S7 hit,not one single dev comment...

Talk about dropping the ball on this one,DSthal must be so proud of himself


Join date July 2012 ... My feckin arse ( Feb 2010 )
"The great thing about the internet is its leveling effect; online all opinions are equally WORTHLESS." <------> Grant Morrison
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14
# 180
11-14-2012, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Fleet actions are un-social play. Go check it. It's a blatant selfish race.

And I'm sorry I don't play a Star Trek game for such a crap.

Truth.

I don't LIKE competetive group play, be it PVP, fleet actions, whatever. I was never a massive fan of the STFs, but they are at least about cooperation... working as a team to get the job done, not trying to outdo/shaft everyone else to 'win' the instance.

So yeah, congratulations to Comrade Stahl-in, my incentive to engage in group play in STO is now hovering around the zero mark.
- Redneck Academy - / Legio XVI 'CARDASSIA'


All generalizations are false, including this one.
- Mark Twain
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