Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,097
# 181
11-14-2012, 04:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestormsong View Post
This. How is removing our ways to get dilithium going to make us refine MORE?

And why bother to tell your players that they will be getting dilithium from STF's and then
simply take it out? It's like the worst move you could have made. Just come out and tell us
what we already know - that the point of all this is to make us buy zen and convert to
dilithium. Stop with the sugar-coated lies and just be straight with your playerbase.
Because DSTahl has gone back to the way he was before he left .... giving us false promises and not giving a --bleep-- about how the players feel about it.

They hide behind reports and point to those reports and completely ignore the human players in the equation.

A HUGE thank you to Cryptic for the Mogh-class battle cruiser!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 49
First all. These changes deserved a rage post from me, because rage was the first feeling that come after reading this Dev Blog. But I will contain myself and try to give constructive feedback.
  • I believe you say that the average player plays 3.5 hours/day. But I don't think most of them spend all this time running only dilithium missions. Therefore the logic "let's make them to barely hit dilithium cap in this time" is flawed. Unless you start to attach dilithium rewards on EVERY single mission (what is not a bad idea by the way). This is supported by your own data showing players were refining approximatelly half than you expected.
  • STF Dilithium. Adding dilithium to the other fleet actions was a good move, indeed. Now Dilithium is in fact more accessible and not on an exploitative way to players not playing elite missions. But removing it from STF you make it MUCH less accesible to players playing elite missions. This goes against what you want: To make Dilithium more accessible to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if you observe on the next few months the amount of people playing STF's dropping drastically. I speak for myself here. With the addition of New Romulus I won't be playing STF's for awhile.
  • Yet about STF Dilithium. The excuse about given indirectly does not convince. You will have to grind the rep system all the way to T5 to unlock the indirect Dilithium reward. And even then, you will receive a much less dilithium than previously. And much less then playing another part of the game. Not worth it.
  • Duty Officers Reasignment: They were NOT undervaluated. Think that for getting a purple DOFF you need 125 common DOFFS plus 5*10+50*5+250 = 550 Dil. Collecting all these DOFFS is a lot. Specially if you consider they are input at the fleet projects as well, so they are very valuable (just look at the prices at exchange to see this). Now, to get a purple you will need the 125 common Doffs plus 500*5+2500*5+3000 = 18000 Dilithium. Just in comparison, the Very Rare DOff bought from Lt. Ferra costs 12500 Dil. And you don't need to give anything more as input rather than dilithium.
  • Other changes. Nothing to comment. Most of them were really balance issue that I understand they needed to be adressed (like B'Tran and foundry missions). I perhaps would just try to evaluate better the change on general recruitment. I always saw it as the most basic way to replenish lost common doff. Putting 1000 dilithium as requirement for this seens a bit harsh. But it is not a problem as big as the others.

Just to conclude: I really appreciate the effort you guys are doing. Just, please. Find a better solution for these problems. Once these things are solved, balance will be restored (and deferans will be happy )
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Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm
Join Date: March 2009
Status: a bit mad for the loss of the data above
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 183
11-14-2012, 04:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
That you don't play for the DIl, but for the thrill? Hell, if that's different for you, I have a job for you. At pre-season-7 STF pay rate, I am sure I will find a way to get rich from your work.



And why would that be bad, then?
It's bad because then not nearly enough people do it, this affects those few who DO play that grind content just for fun because they will find less people, and thus less opportunity to enjoy said content.

As for the weird job offer, I'm afraid I'm unsure what you're getting at. Either way I already have a job that pays AND manages to be enjoyable so thanks, but no thanks.
Joined August 2008
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6
# 184
11-14-2012, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captwilhelm View Post
[*]STF Dilithium. Adding dilithium to the other fleet actions was a good move, indeed. Now Dilithium is in fact more accessible and not on an exploitative way to players not playing elite missions. But removing it from STF you make it MUCH less accesible to players playing elite missions. This goes against what you want: To make Dilithium more accessible to everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if you observe on the next few months the amount of people playing STF's dropping drastically. I speak for myself here. With the addition of New Romulus I won't be playing STF's for awhile.
Next few month? I did 3 stf today, and gonna do less just to get marks. Just need me one day to know STF are waste of time
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,003
# 185
11-14-2012, 04:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cormoran View Post
It's bad because then not nearly enough people do it, this affects those few who DO play that grind content just for fun because they will find less people, and thus less opportunity to enjoy said content.
You mean like the Fleet Actions before Season 7?

Quote:
As for the weird job offer, I'm afraid I'm unsure what you're getting at. Either way I already have a job that pays AND manages to be enjoyable so thanks, but no thanks.
So you would not work for something like 30 Eurocents an hour for me? A pity.

But why would you then do that for a comparable amount of Dilithium? My conclusion: You wouldn't. You'd rather do things that are fun.

Which is the best approach to a game anyway.
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 114
# 186
11-14-2012, 04:59 AM
Just been doing the maths and it looks like it's just a little over 53 hours of non-stop STF grinding to get a MK XII space set, that's assuming you have huge amounts of luck and doesn't take into account all the grinding and time wasted sitting around getting up to Tier 5.

One MK XII space item will set you back 1000 OM, 10 BNP & 34,000 Dilithium

One Elite STF with optional will get you 75 OM & 1 BNP.

So 14 STF's will get you all the OM's you need, with 50 OM and 4 BNP to spare.
That, using Dsthal's figures, is worth 900 dil, so only another 33100 to go, which you need another 39 runs converting everything into dil.
That's 53 runs per piece or 159 runs per set.


Assume an Elite STF is around 20 mins, that comes out at 53 hours of grinding STF's hitting every optional along the way. Yeah that sure does sounds like a great way to improve the entertainment value of STO.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
# 187
11-14-2012, 05:12 AM
As has been stated before, the low average of refining Dilithium is due to 2 factors

1. New players levelling up, there isn't too much oppertunity to get huge amounts of Dilithium on your way to level 50 if you spend your time playing the missions.

2. Alt toons on account.

The first point is fair enough, give dilithium for fleet events so that low level players have a chance to get more dilithium to refine, this makes sense, 15 mins out of playing missions or between missions when you need to increase in rank slightly and it makes the time worth it.

As to the 2nd point, I will say I have only two alts atm, and neither of them have refined any dilithium in the past 6 months so surely this proves that it is bringing the averages down.

STFs were meant to be end game content, something for the player base to do when reaching VA.
These missions require tactics and teamwork, they are fun and the rewards at the end made them worth the time, unlike Fleet events you could get MK XII weapons or other drops that were worth someting for your time along with Dilithium.
Now all we get is Omega marks and that useless item (forget the name) that'll require 5 runs to get any dilithium out of it, there is no incentive to play these STFs anymore, and what the hell is the use of the Optional anymore either? Oh look we got the optional on elite... 15 extra omega marks... that was worth it...
Bring back the Dilithium and Drops for STFs!!!

Fleet events on the other hand do not require any skill, tactics or team play whatsoever, they are boring as hell as you don't need to think at all.
Anyone know if you get anything extra from rescuing the runabouts in the Klingon one? I haven't noticed anything.
Fleet events are biased towards Tactical captains/ships, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd placements are determined by DPS, this makes it nearly impossible for any science or engineering ships to rank 1st to get the Purple drops, at least int Stfs you had a chance.

If Cryptic really think they can change the game so that you will need to grind for upto 4 hours a day to get the 8K dilithium to increase refining they are sorely mistaken.
I can see the following things happen now
1. Less players play STFs
2. More players will play fleet events or other content alone to get the dilithium needed, thus detracting from being a MMO
3. There will be more people camping in fleet events to get the diltihium without doing anything.... while this can be seen good and bad by other players its annoying as hell still
4. Alts will not be played as often if at all as people will not have time to grind 2 or more toons to get dilithium/fleet marks/romulan marks/omega marks to level up their equipment
5. players will leave in droves to other MMO's


One of the best features as a lifetime player is the ability to refine upto a weeks worth of Dilithium upon logging in if you haven't been active for a few days. I have taken oppertunity of this so many times where I am away on holiday for a week or away for the weekend, I could grind for dilithium for a evening or 2 before going away to ensure I had enough to last me when I could not log in.
Now this is not going to be able to happen due to restricting dilithium and the time it takes to get it now
Lets go by Dahl's estimate of 4 hours to get 8K
To get enough dilithium to cover a week of being away from the game to refine when you return you will need 56,000 dilithium
This is equal to 28 hours straight playing only events which give dilithium, now this is will be over 2 days so you will obviously want 8k refined both of these days too, so we shall add another 8 hours to this time frame giving 36 straight hours gaming
Now no-one is going to game for this long at once, so to stick with the 2 day frame that equals to breaks of 6 hours for sleep and food... and to think Season 7 was supposed to stop the long grind.

Realistically to the causal gold player, you will rarely have enough time in game to accrue Dilithium for this gold benefit to be worth it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
# 188
11-14-2012, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorga113 View Post
that comes out at 53 hours of grinding STF's hitting every optional along the way.


And how many hours of STF grinding was required to get a complete Mk XII space set under the old system? Oh yeah, that's right, under the old system there was no guarantee you would EVER get the Mk XII set even after thousands of hours of grinding. How is the new system worse again?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 427
# 189
11-14-2012, 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
You mean like the Fleet Actions before Season 7?



So you would not work for something like 30 Eurocents an hour for me? A pity.

But why would you then do that for a comparable amount of Dilithium? My conclusion: You wouldn't. You'd rather do things that are fun.

Which is the best approach to a game anyway.
Then people will gravitate to them yes, but they could have done that without cryptic gimping STF rewards. Here's a mind blowing thought, add dilithium to FA's and... leave the dilithium in STFs aswell.

I'm still not seeing the point of what you're talking about here (particularly now that you're using European currency...) could you please be more clear with your analogy?

And you bet I'd rather do things that are fun. This is why at the moment I'm Playing through S.T.A.L.K.E.R. call of pripyat, GTA4/stories, retro city rampage, the witcher 2, the walking dead and eagerly awaiting hitman absolution INSTEAD of "enjoying" the new changes in STO.

With a lack of viable reward, the fun things in STO just aren't fun enough to compete with the fun those other game provide me. With a viable reward I'm more willing to put myself through it for the eventual satisfaction a reward brings.
Joined August 2008
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 42
# 190
11-14-2012, 05:17 AM
players are not getting the amount of dilithium we expect.. Makes dilithium harder to get...

classic. gg
Koopa27 -X-treme
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