Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,028
# 211
11-14-2012, 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by lubek View Post
From blog: "50 Marks = 500 Dilithium"

Yesterday I did one Cure space (normal) with completed bonus objective (yes, I'm sure it was completed). I received 19 Omega Marks as a reward. So it means that to get 500 dilithium I will have to do that run 3 times, while before season 7 i would get 480 dili for just one run. Awesome...
Oh, and that also means that this:

"Approx. 20 Omega Mark per STF (Varies per STF)
Bonus Objective: +25% more Omega Marks"

is either a lie, or something is bugged.
That's Romulan Marks for Dil. 50 RM for 500 dil.

Once you have finished Tier 5 in a Reputation systems, you can convert Omega or Romulan Marks into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:

50 Marks = 500 Dilithium
STF BNP conversion to dil is even worse.
At any tier in the Omega Reputation system, you can convert Borg Neural Processors into Dilithium by running Reputation projects:

10 Borg Neural Processors = 1000 Dilithium
That means one BNP = 100 dil. Elite STFs used to reward 1100 dil. 10 Elite STF runs for 1000 dil...
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11
# 212
11-14-2012, 07:34 AM
First when S7 came i was bit paranoid to some stuff it was going to offer, then last night i saw i was wrong about it (not all of it). Then YOU go and take dilithium away wich is our only way of getting somewhat decent amounts of currency. DID IT EVER OCCURED to you that not all of us can weave up our hands with RL cash ?? OH thats right, i forgot you obviously have NO regard for people who are whitout RL money wich could be understandable you gotta live out of something, but WHY WHY WHY in God's name you go and change what is only income for those of us who dont have RL cash ? Second thing, you wrote that people arent getting enough dilithium somewhat 3k or less.... ARE YOU INSANE ??? Per day prior to S7 i made up to 10k+ of dilithium on my toons each day, not to mention 500k of EC !!! So where do you get your info idk prolly from some delusional ideas of yours not much sane minds. Now you are telling me and others like me, that you are shutting that down on us, but you increased dilithium sinkholes. Did it ever, ever occured to you that maybe some of us do not want to do dailies/quickies, DOFF-ign etc as for our MAIN SOURCE of currency ???? Game should be fun not to be forced to do what i dont want to do or do chores !! Also further more, tell me SINCE WHEN, WHEN are stuff like SB 24, Klink Scout Force and more others along with dailies, Fleet Actions main place for getting dilithium huh ???? STF's are the ENDGAME wich you succesfully ruined by your ignorance and obviously lack of interest for your player base community, just showing us how much you apppreciate us. To me STF's were place of fun, no matter how much i did them i enjoyed doing them every night with my friends and fleet mates, true there was times when it went bad or not so good but at least i knew that not only for good time that im haveing il be rewarded so i can use that dilithium for SB/Zen etc, but now YOU KILLED that with your ignorance and obviously nothing more then pure case of ARROGANCE !! Also what its more worse is that you say that high end gear, like the engines you specified there will cost 84k of Dilithium ????? Pls tell me more how am i suppose to buy that with you sucesffuly killing my only income ??? Oh and did you thinked at least once that some of us (90% of server prolly) already HAD HIGH END GEAR, wich you succesfully ROBBED from us !?!?!? So lets sumarize not only that now WE did get ROBBED thnx to courtesy of you, not only you are ROBBED us of dilithium income but you also added more SINKHOLES and BIGGER PRICES ?? IDk where does your sense for economy lies but obviously was written by someone who is in Elementary School. You want us to keep getting dilithium ?? Fine ! THEN GIVE US BACK WHAT YOU HAVE STOLEN !! And STOP lying to people for once stop acting like bunch of irresponsibles teenagers !! STOP with idioticism and start acctually doing something good for your community wich i seriously doubt you will, since you have shown your true face before.

To continue on, you want us to buy stuff that you create, fine that is ok, lets now go back to stuff you release before, how much BUG's are know there on wich you didnt do anything to fix them ? Like idk lets name some KAGE's Sprinting Elite Tac Drones who comes at ya like speeding train ?? Or lets see Galaxy Bridge Pack wich is till broken ?? Well then mate we got ourselfs a problem, people arent your SHEEPS that will buy broken goods on wich you dont even have decency to fix them. Also review your new GROUND STF (wich it doesnt matter anymore since nobody wont be playing them thnx to your "wisdom") for Engineers on whos Kit's cant be much of use due to electrified floor pannels ? Meh nvm that either, you will prolly give us lame response like "Working as inteded". What i wonder next what will people like me do now ? 1 day i need to gather Omega Marks, 1 for Rommies and what i will do the rest of time for fun huh ?? ? Doing Lore missions? or maybe you expect me to go back and play missions back aggain ??? No offense to anyone but this is not my cup of tea, or my plan of haveing good time.

So to summarize. S7 new changes as for some game mechanic goes are good, BUT what is not good is that you STOLEN our only way of income to this game, so better RETURN it back before you start loosing people and before you lead ST franchise to its worst collapse and disgrace in HISTORY !

Pull out together and do something for us for a change, you know it might keep us playing the game !
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 213
11-14-2012, 07:39 AM
Originally Posted by amosov78 View Post
I'd have liked to have seen a dilithium reward added to completing any of the Featured Episode series.
My guess is that won't help them prop up their metrics the way they want to.

They want to show players playing in groups, playing for dilithium.

So they are trying to funnel all players into the easiest to access content (read: requires spacebar & a pulse) that also requires them to group.

Several devs have stated on podcasts that when they want players to do content X, they want all players to do content X - that's what the original time gating of events was all about.

Whether that was, really, Cryptic's idea or just part of PWE's model they decided to adopt is another story.

Hence, mindless zerg-fest fleet actions now award Dilithium and the only mildly challenging STFs do not.

Last edited by ussultimatum; 11-14-2012 at 07:42 AM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,071
# 214
11-14-2012, 07:45 AM
What I really don't understand is trying to funnel folks into content (fleet actions) that:

a. are buggy
b. haven't been updated for that funnel except new rewards for old grinds. (Maybe I'm wrong, since I haven't played them today).
c. have been some of the worst content in the game.
d. have been abandoned by the players.
e. have often been abandoned or axed by the devs due to faulty designs.
f. cannot be done by fleets (maybe that is changed now?)

The most memorable fleet actions were ones that I could not complete. Are they even still around? The crystalline entity, the rounding up of space creatures, etc.

I also vaguely remember the dig site, where I killed something like 300 Cardassians, without really understanding what any of it was all about.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 464
# 215
11-14-2012, 07:46 AM
They can twist and turn it all they want,the bottom line is they are trying to extend the life of the content by having us play it over and over by offering minimal Dilithium rewards and increasing the Dilithium prices.That Dilithium for Zen prices may go up because of that is a nice bonus.

What I haven't heard Stahl say even once,is the word FUN. A game should be in the hell is being FORCED to 'play' the same content over and over,and lets not forget THEY CHOOSE WHAT CONTENT,in any language FUN!? Apparently in Chinese BEING FORCED TO WORK = HAVING FUN.

From what I read on the forums,from what I read in Zone chat,from what I hear from fleet mates.....

People are angry and are starting to revolt,and Stahl,you might not want to take it seriously.....but look at what happened in the Middle East when people didn't get heard,were pushed aside and ignored....well,the people are no longer ignored....

Don't forget....if this blows up,it blows up in your face Stahl,and you are the one they will blame for the mess.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 216
11-14-2012, 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
Missing the point.
My point was very simple.

If you are going to make a statement about a situation and say that you gleaned the knowledge from academic work, you should cite that work. Otherwise it's meaningless. Furthermore if you don't cite it how can I read and thus expand my own knowledge?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,043
# 217
11-14-2012, 07:47 AM
Now engaging your points, past the point that I resent having to work for my assertions here or have my integrity called into question. This is my Marty McFly "Are you chicken?" button and I think everyone who posts here knows that.

Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Currently by DStahl's estimate we all need to be playing a minimum of 20 hours dilithium content orientated (not STF's) per week per character... which is completely out of whack with the research above that states the average weekly game time is a mere 22.85 hours per week. Let us also remember that due to Dilithium gating such time cannot be split over two days in a weekend and must be split over all 5 days Stahl cites as being required. If the intended aim of the changes was to get end game players to get more Dilithium over a short amount of time their model is critically flawed.
Stahl isn't talking all players. He's talking level 50 players. Few games are all endgame players and turnover happens constantly in any MMO. So general population statistics are not relevant to end game objectives here and there is no point arguing or discussing math on social metrics because Cryptic has theirs (which is as precise as they want it to be; they could probably figure out people's bladder size and whether they're a smoker, a drinker, or an illegal drug user and all kinds of stuff about the playerbase) and all we have are general guesses and principals.

So we should be engaging this from a PURE qualitative/philosophical/a priori knowledge kind of perspective. The papers you cite are useful for discussing principles but useless for describing STO specifically except in terms of broad principle, unless someone from Cryptic could come on here and confirm that those metrics match their internal observations in some way or unless you tried to replicate the work here.

I'd read the Giffiths/Cole paper before. And it's focused on friendships in MMOs, which is more of a function of chat than of gameplay. I maintain that in terms of gameplay, there is more interest in ambient and indirect interaction than in coordinated and directly competitive interaction. And that's kindof an obvious principle because the latter two are more resource taxing and largely irrelevant to socialization.

From this study we can see that your final sentence is also seemingly flawed as over 70% of respondents confirmed that they had made good friends and enjoyed interacting with them.
Which has zilch to do with PvP or coordinated play. Additionally, when people DO coordinated play with friends, yes, it's theoretically less socially taxing. But that doesn't mean they want to team with or fight people they are NOT friends with. 70% HAVING friends is not the same as 70% BEING friends. So you've got 5-10 friends that you like playing with. What does that say about anything? The more striking number is that 30% have none.

As you can see from this 2nd study the hours per week is exactly the same, perhaps they used the same dataset for that calculation, but look at the average economic demography of players, yes 50% of people playing work full time and 36% are married. This tells you if STO is typical that at least 50% are of our player base is already at peak investment in hours and time. Thus an extension to time required to achieve the end-game rewards we have the effect of turning off many of these players.

There are no doubt countless other surveys and academic work but these two were the most popular hits on google... and though they are dated (2006/2007) one assumes the demographic in western markets has not changed in their social habits in any great way.
Again, over-reliance on quantitative scholarship, subject to a number of assumptions.

A lit prof, a philosophy prof, a strategic marketing specialist, certain kinds of low math economists... These are the kinds of scholars whose viewpoints will be more relevant here than anthropological metrics.

The more math, the more error.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 218
11-14-2012, 07:48 AM
I can't even gin up enough enthusiasm for STO now to be bothered to type my criticisms of Season 7 dilithium decisions.


Yeah, that pretty much covers it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 219
11-14-2012, 07:49 AM
I don't know if I must laugh or cry, I have no words for this, how could you do this, WHY. What is the point of doing STF if the only thing you do is get gear to do STF with. Only way you want to do that is to make STF easier so you can get easier your loot and dil. But if I don't do STF in don't need the borg gear to grind borg with. So there is no logical conclusion to do STF anymore.

Also the prices of the doff replacement in ridiculous high and many more things that are in the shadows off this STF mishap.

I hope you guy change it back else I am off to other things.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 254
# 220
11-14-2012, 07:54 AM
i have looked out for the relaese of s7,but now i'm disappointed,verry verry disapointed.

you said that with the new rep system we have 60% more change to get the elite gear.
but now you nerfed it,and you have put another nail in your deadchest...

let me place what i got in 3 weeks doing the stf's:

18 prototype's for weapons.
6 elite shield drops.
4 elite impulse drops.
3 elite ddeflector drops.

9 bleu salvage for weapons.
3 normal shield drops
5 normal impusle drop.
2 normal deflector drops.

around the 180 encrypted data chips (edc)

in 3 weeks,i got all of this.
and i just qeued,i didnt do all of them with my fleet members.

you say: 60&% more change for the drops?

this reputation system is gonna take months!
and what do we get?

the change to buy it!
if we got enough dillithuim,wich is for a elite weapon/shield/whatever around the 80k.
with a refine cap of 8 k a day,it is gonna take an additional 10 days to refine enough.

but we can do it in 10 days...cause you screwed the dillithuim reward also!

so a quick calculation: 4 months for repsystem,10 days for refining,20 days for dillithuim(cant say the right amount right now) ?
that make's almost 4,5 months for 1 crappy piece of the gear,cause not eevry player has 8 houre's a day to spend.

so 4,5 months = 1 piece gear

3 weeks =

18 elite weapons.
9 elite shields
4 elite impulse's
3 elite deflector.

9 normal weapons.
3 normal shields
5 normal impulse
2 normal deflector

and choose for yourself what you will do with the +/- 180 edc's

thats a diffference,dont you think cryptic?and if you dont get it,go back to school and learn math.

and i know not every one have the same amount,maybe i was really lucky,but still it is not a fair rate.
2th point:

do you guys think,that the fleets will grow?
everyone is gonna do there rep system first,so no dillithuim for fleet projects.
no other contribute's cause people need there ec to buy the sh*t we need for the rep major regneraotions...i even dont know where i can get them,cause i have 4 of them,as loot......

and yes people,i'm f2p,and yes i dont pay....

but does that make that i cant say what i think?
does the lifetimers and the people who pay have any benefit from it??
i know if i dont like it, that i can quit....

but after i quit,and several you think they will change it?

if we wanna change it...we need to make clear how we think about it.....

with kind regards.


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