Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,615
# 81
11-14-2012, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I think the loot drops from fleet actions are clearly more than enough. They are way better than what we used to get in STFs. Actually I like the current design: ECs in fleet actions (with some dil), and dil with marks in STFs. It gives me a reason to play both.
Yep, I'm with that charming cardassian tailor on this.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 290
# 82
11-14-2012, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by rodentmaster View Post
It's still a massive net loss in dilithium with almost every element of the game converted into a dil sink. No more rewards for STFs (the honor to waste untold thousands of dilithium for rewards you should have already earned?), the new "mark" systems, the horrific decisions on the doff system...

Reverting back to allow dilithium for STFs doesn't make up for the net loss of many thousands of dil per day. THOSE changes need to be reverted as well.
This. This, please. Having to pay dilithium to reassign underperforming doffs is outrageous.
Husker - RugBurn
Zaan - Mel'Kor - Zarek
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 117
# 83
11-14-2012, 04:58 PM
Great news, definitely needed. Thank you.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 53
# 84
11-14-2012, 05:00 PM
Mr. Stahl and devs,

First off, I'd like to say first that I do enjoy the STFs, and running them with other people especially for the Omega reputation system, as I ran several STF missions and only managed to get a single prototype-tech drop. Now I can work to getting the KHG / MACO / Omega Force gear that I've been wanting for a while. I can also appreciate the Fleet Actions, despite the fact that they can be (and probably are) buggy at times.

However, I recall the statement made in the discussion about dilithium about your concern over players 'not refining enough dilithium ore', and that got me thinking...

To make it more accessible to players, why not further increase the rewards given, particularly with the dilithium costs associated with the fleet starbase/embassy projects (especially the special projects, that eat up 200,000 dilithium) and the higher tier reputation projects (requisitions and unlocks). Here's what I'd like to propose:

1. Leave the Fleet Action dilithium rewards and cooldowns where they are right now.

Fleet Actions = 1,440 dilithium.
Cooldown = 30 minutes

2. STFs, which require serious amounts of teamwork just to complete and also achieve the optional objectives deserve large dilithium rewards for those who run them. Bump up the rewards for them to reflect the skill needed and reduce the cooldown for these missions by half.

Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes

Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes

3. Raise the refining cap to 24,000 dilithium per day.

Last edited by crioijouls; 11-14-2012 at 05:05 PM.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,926
# 85
11-14-2012, 05:01 PM
I know this is a compromise, but the extra dilithium goes to the Weapon requisitions and such for the things that were awarded previously dilithium free in the form of random STF Drops.

So Dstahl and people, we are not getting "more dilithium" then before. We just get the amount we did so we can spend it on the new STF items store.

Which is a compromise. Its still better then getting nothing from STFs save marks.

But why do I think that more dilithium helps Cryptic?

Its a simple thing. Or no, not really. I'll explain.

A group: People with an ardous but rewarding job have a lot of money, but got no time. Logically they can't grind the Dilithium out, but buy Zen and go to Dilithium exchange.

B group: People without a job, or with a part time job have little money, but got a lot of time. Logically they can not buy zen, but grind the dilithium.

So B group grinds the Dilithium out, and A group buys Zen for money. Then they trade it on the Dilithium exchange.

Now, making the Dilithium grind harder by removing STF Dilithium rewards, B'tran rewards or Investigate Daily Foundry missions reduces Group B's capability to earn Dilithium.

So group B faces the trouble, do they sell the Dilithium for Zen, or spend it for gear? They can't grind enough to do both!

And if they can't provide enough Dilithium for the Exchange, Group A will buy less Zen as a result.

But now, re-adding the STF rewards with a little nerf now lets Group B grind out enough Dilithium to spend it on their own gear/starbase/reputation, and put it on the exchange for Group A.

Which means even free to play players (group B) who never purchased Zen or a subscription still make Cryptic profits by providing Dilithium to be bought by Group A.

So this change not only makes players happy, but also has a big chance of making Cryptic some profits.
And that is before we factor in that Group B will be happier, and this may just persuade them to buy this or that C-store ship because their opinion have been improved.

And as last, even free players help improve the game by putting items on exchange, being team members and doing foundry projects too.
Which may improve the morale and the enjoyment rate of paying customers. That's a little help, but maybe it counts.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,311
# 86
11-14-2012, 05:03 PM
THANKS....THANKS...THANKS...honestly for listening to the forums and twitters. You guys showed great maturity and responsibilty in hearing us the little people at the bottom
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14
# 87
11-14-2012, 05:03 PM
Thank you Cryptic for listening to us and coming to some compromise. I understand we can't have everything, but hopefully this way we are both happy.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 88
11-14-2012, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
Cool changes, I didn't want to bother with Space Fleet Actions anyway. Now, they're REALLY not worth my time.

Lol ok. Today I picked up a Tactical-Disruptor Induction Coil MkXI Purple for coming first. Worth about 3 million ec. Easiest 10-15 minutes ever.
I drink, I vote, and I PvP!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 171
# 89
11-14-2012, 05:10 PM
Many thanks for this - very welcome news
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,357
# 90
11-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
It wasn't an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and even though the Dilithium changes to remove STFs has been on TRIBBLE since the test weekend promo, it wasn't until we looked at the data today and saw that everyone had more Dilithium on average and still weren't happy - that I decided that the data driven approach was accomplishing the goal of giving players more Dilithium, but wasn't making some of our hardcore players happy at all.

As others have pointed out, this is a more balanced approach that may have implications for Dilithium exchange rates in the future (because there will be much more Dilithium in the economy) - but we want players having fun with the new Season 7 content - not worrying about how to get Dilithium.

So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.
Easy decision or not, your last position on Tribble was 960 dil for elites and 480 dil for normals. And that's how Season 7 should have come to Holodeck. If for some reason you were to reconsider, first, you should let the players know and only then remove the dil. (Not saying I'd support it, I'd be very much against. I'm simply stating you shouldn't do unexpected changes that are on top of all detrimental to players.)

And I haven't seen anyone else expecting a surplus of dilithium in game after this change except maybe some of your employees. By all logic, there should be less dilithium available in game even if you doubled dilithium rewards for STFs, simply because many new dilithium sinks have been added (general doff assignement, doff grinder, reputation stores, embassy) while only the fleet actions received (now a rather small) dilithium rewards.

I can only thank you for posting here.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans

Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
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