Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
# 1 Dilithium Rewards Suggestion
11-19-2012, 10:29 AM
With all of the uproar about the dilithium changes, grinding, multiple currencies, etc., I thought I'd make a few suggestions. The changes were made to close some exploits (quickie clickies, B'Tran double dip) and to shift focus from some content (STFs) to others (FAs... and then back to STFs). Mr. Stahl pointed out that many players were not making their 8000 daily refinement, that it should take 3 to 4 hours of gameplay to hit 8000, that dilithium is supposed to be a time played based reward, and that changes were made to make it easier to get 8000 on a given character in the timeframe they feel appropriate.

My frustrations seem to be similar to many people on the forums and in game, but perhaps not spelled out quite the same way. It feels as though to make any advancement in some of the end game and newer content, you have to repeatedly play certain aspects of the game over and over, abandoning aspects that you might otherwise want to play for the fun of it. For example, I have played a small handful of foundary missions. I enjoyed the stories and the escape from replaying some of the content over and over. However, many of the well done foundary missions, if you take the time and play them as intended (read the dialog, enjoy the story), take a significant amount of time to get through. As a result, I enjoyed the time spent playing the mission, but I did not spend time playing content that would have helped me advance my fleet or my reputation (the content focuses of seasons 6 and 7). I therefore, feel discouraged from playing foundary missions, replaying main story missions, or even trying to dabble in crafting.

I appologize for this turning into a wall of text, but what I am getting at is why not reward all content more? With time gating functionality and refinement caps already in place, it seems as though providing more rewards should not break the economy of this game, but improve it. I would think some of this is evidenced by the dilithium exchange dropping from 320ish to 160ish from S5 to S6, and it seems to be down in the 140s now post-S7. From a sales standpoint, Cryptic probably has a better understanding than I do, but for me I would buy Zen to make Z-Store purchases when the exchange rates were 320+. When it's down to the 140s, I would rather grind dilithium than spend real money on purchases of ships and costumes.

So what I propose is perhaps something along the lines of the following for rewards:

Missions - 160 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points - 1 Hour Cool Down
-Main story missions and perhaps doubled to 320 when featured.

Daily Missions - 480 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points - 20 Hour Cool Down
-Academy lore missions, Traelus, and other missions that are already setup this way basically.

Explore X Cluster (Normal) Daily - 480 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Exploration XP - 20 Hour Cool Down
-480 for three easy missions, and it gets non-VA players into these areas.

Explore X Cluster (VA) Daily - 960 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Exploration XP, Diplomacy XP - 20 Hour Cool Down
-VA versions of these areas should be harder and should reward a little more. It would encourage VAs to do more exploring and reward those that prefer exploration to queue combat.

PvE Queue (Normal) - 960 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Marks - 1 Hour Cool Down
-FAs provided no dilithium, then 1440, and now 480. It seems like they will be played only slightly more than pre-S7. Why not make FAs and FEs give 960 dilithium and fleet marks, and normal STFs give 960 dilithium and omega marks? The same could be applied to Romulan content and any future reputation content (Cardassian missions give 960 and Cardassian marks, Deferi missions give 960 and Deferi marks, etc.).

PvE Queue (Elite) - 1440 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Marks, Proto-Gear - 1 Hour Cool Down
-I'm applying the same thinking here as with the exploration above. Elite missions should be harder, and reward more. Elite STFs are already gated by level, and you could even introduce Elite versions of FAs, FEs, and any other missions in the PvE Queue.

Investigate Officer Reports Daily - 2400 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points - 20 Hour Cool Down
-The reason the dilithium is so high here would be the amount of time invested (1.5+ hours). Perhaps this is too high. I was trying to keep everything with the 480 theme. The missions that qualify could be hand picked by the devs, such as only spotlight missions count. That way, we avoid quickies.

Again, I'm just putting all of this out there as a suggestion. Dilithium refinement is already capped, everything is time gated to prevent abuse, and you get rewarded for trying everything without feeling like you're falling behind with your fleet or personal advancement. Mr. Stahl and the developers here have created some amazing worlds and missions, and I have enjoyed most of the content available. I wrote this great wall of text because I have enjoyed this game, and I want it to continue to be enjoyable for myself and for others. It's sad to see so much anger when new content was release. I don't think that most of the players wanted to be upset, and I don't think the developers spent this much time and effort with the intent of enraging people. Ultimately, I believe the developers want people to enjoy and appreciate the body of work that they've created.

I've played enough MMOs over the last decade and a half to know that devs can't respond to every post. My hope though, is that perhaps one can, even Mr. Stahl himself, provide some insight and counters to such a reward system.

Thanks again for letting me play out childhood dreams of flying around the galaxy as a captain of a starship.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 2
11-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I made some similar suggestions in a long thread about normalising rewards for all the content and allowing players to choose between Dilithium / Fleet Marks / Reputation Marks for all STFs, Fleet actions, and pretty much anything else from the PvE queue.

While both our ideas are solid and strongly worth attention from the Devs it will never happen. This forum has turned into a complete mess where good posts are ignored and whine posts flourish. As such no one with any influence in the game bothers looking at it.

All these ways to improve the game for everyone and they are doomed to be ignored because there is no way of ensuring the people who matter see them. I'd sooner write a proper letter and mail it to Cryptic headquarters but I don't have the address. At least then there is a better chance they would see it.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,686
# 3
11-19-2012, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbreprime View Post
Explore X Cluster (Normal) Daily - 480 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Exploration XP - 20 Hour Cool Down
-480 for three easy missions, and it gets non-VA players into these areas.

Explore X Cluster (VA) Daily - 960 Dilithium, Gear, Skill Points, Exploration XP, Diplomacy XP - 20 Hour Cool Down
-VA versions of these areas should be harder and should reward a little more. It would encourage VAs to do more exploring and reward those that prefer exploration to queue combat.
So you would want these to be like B'Tran was, albeit with lesser dilth reward? Thats a good idea...but i really dont think the devs would do it because the reason they removed B'Tran was due to the so called "exploit" that awarded 2880 dilth for running through a 30 mins cycle lol....at the same time however, I like this idea because it WOULD get players there alot more (I camp at Rolor for mark 7 data samples for crafting lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
# 4
11-19-2012, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
I made some similar suggestions in a long thread about normalising rewards for all the content and allowing players to choose between Dilithium / Fleet Marks / Reputation Marks for all STFs, Fleet actions, and pretty much anything else from the PvE queue.

While both our ideas are solid and strongly worth attention from the Devs it will never happen. This forum has turned into a complete mess where good posts are ignored and whine posts flourish. As such no one with any influence in the game bothers looking at it.

All these ways to improve the game for everyone and they are doomed to be ignored because there is no way of ensuring the people who matter see them. I'd sooner write a proper letter and mail it to Cryptic headquarters but I don't have the address. At least then there is a better chance they would see it.
I figured that I couldn't have been the first to make this kind of suggestion. I don't really ever post in MMO forums because of the exact reasons you described. Many posts seem to go down it flames, beaten to death by trolls, or simply lost in all of the noise. I do simpathize with many of the frustration posts that have come out since the launch of S7. While I'm sure it could be said that I just need to adjust my playstyle to the new system, I don't think that's what the intent was. I'm not sure why the developers would want us to abandon certain aspects/missions. It seems that by shifting dilithium back and forth between FAs and STFs, they want us to play both. I hope that I'm on the same page as them in that I should be spending time playing content that is fun, not chasing resources.

Quote:
So you would want these to be like B'Tran was, albeit with lesser dilth reward? Thats a good idea...but i really dont think the devs would do it because the reason they removed B'Tran was due to the so called "exploit" that awarded 2880 dilth for running through a 30 mins cycle lol....at the same time however, I like this idea because it WOULD get players there alot more (I camp at Rolor for mark 7 data samples for crafting lol)
Basically yes, my thought on the explore clusters was that they should each have their own mission, and do away with the generic version that could be used in any cluster. They have a normal and VA version of B'Tran, so why not do that for all of the clusters? I understand that there are quick ways of gaming the cluster missions, but that's why the smaller dilithium reward and long cooldown seemed appropriate. Again, the devs would know what the appropriate amount and time would be. I was simply going off of 3 missions for normal should maybe be 3 x 160 = 480, and VA should be twice as hard and worth more, so 480 x 2 = 960. If you do both VA and then normal for a given cluster, that comes to 1440 for 6 missions. That seemed reasonable to me.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 585
# 5
11-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I think this is a fantastic idea. Let's just hope to the high heavens that this get's some dev attention, because if this was implimented it would seriously make the game easier (Although this doesn't mean they should keep the insane OF/R gear dil prices... ): ) and smaller fleets like mine, would be easy to get the asthetic special projects in time.


Also, i think your amounts are very good aswell. I seriously don't think theres a legitimate reason why those should be reduced, like you said - We have the cap.


Hell, we should all post something on this thread each day, keep it floating on top of the huge quantity of whining/ ERMAGERD I HATE U CRYPTIC threads
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
# 6
11-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by latiasracer View Post
I think this is a fantastic idea. Let's just hope to the high heavens that this get's some dev attention, because if this was implimented it would seriously make the game easier (Although this doesn't mean they should keep the insane OF/R gear dil prices... ): ) and smaller fleets like mine, would be easy to get the asthetic special projects in time.


Also, i think your amounts are very good aswell. I seriously don't think theres a legitimate reason why those should be reduced, like you said - We have the cap.


Hell, we should all post something on this thread each day, keep it floating on top of the huge quantity of whining/ ERMAGERD I HATE U CRYPTIC threads
I'd like to see the rates on some of the projects and doff missions come down too, but I figured if the rewards were similar to what I posted, the projects, doffs missions, and equipment costs wouldn't feel as harsh. That seems like a fair trade off. I'm not so much asking to make the game easier as much as I'm asking to turn the focus back off of resource grinding and back to the content.

I will say though that even if those suggestions were adopted, 200k for the fleet special projects seems a bit steep.

I'm glad to see positive responses so far. Thanks for the feedback!
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5
# 7
11-19-2012, 01:15 PM
Some simple ideas I have come up with to make Dil more accessable without flooding the market (with an 8k cap i dont know how you really could).

I never understood the 480/1440 number. 480/1440 doesnt go into 8000. Why not make the rewards 500, 1500 ?

Add Dil rewards to more quests. The Romalun invasion daily rewards 480, why doesnt the the other Romulan space daily ? It takes longer than the invasion.

All 4 STF's offer Dil, and now the fleet ques offer Dil, why doesn't the Romulan ques offer Dil ? The one i ran (the new Vault) takes longer than the Pre 7 STF's.

Those ideas would mean i could do things i need to do to progress (fleet/rep) and make some Dil too. And on a day i only have an hour or two i could just que up for whichever PVE mark i needed and make 2-3 k dil. I dont PVP so all my Dil comes from PVE.

Lastly revert the changes to the DOFFs. Theres PLENTY of other Dil holes out there
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 108
# 8
11-19-2012, 02:09 PM
I agree. I believe all missions should provide either dilithium and some marks or gear, or an option to choose your reward. This would give players much more flexibility in there game play.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
# 9
11-19-2012, 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebluz View Post
Some simple ideas I have come up with to make Dil more accessable without flooding the market (with an 8k cap i dont know how you really could).

I never understood the 480/1440 number. 480/1440 doesnt go into 8000. Why not make the rewards 500, 1500 ?

Add Dil rewards to more quests. The Romalun invasion daily rewards 480, why doesnt the the other Romulan space daily ? It takes longer than the invasion.

All 4 STF's offer Dil, and now the fleet ques offer Dil, why doesn't the Romulan ques offer Dil ? The one i ran (the new Vault) takes longer than the Pre 7 STF's.

Those ideas would mean i could do things i need to do to progress (fleet/rep) and make some Dil too. And on a day i only have an hour or two i could just que up for whichever PVE mark i needed and make 2-3 k dil. I dont PVP so all my Dil comes from PVE.

Lastly revert the changes to the DOFFs. Theres PLENTY of other Dil holes out there
I wasn't sure about the 480/1440 into 8000 either, but when I was thinking up my suggestions, I came to 160 for regular missions because 160 X 3 = 480. So if you did 50 story missions X 160 = 8000. I don't know why 160/480/960/1440 either though. As you noted, multiples of 50/500 would seem to make a little more sense. Again though, I don't know what the thought process was behind the inital design.

I agree on adding dilithium to the dailies and all PvE queue missions. Adding the dilithium to them means you can focus on the missions you want to do and the marks you want to earn rather than whether or not you collect the most important resource or not.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 239
# 10
11-19-2012, 02:45 PM
More dilithium for PvE sounds good to me. Only refined dilihtium counts, and the daily refinement cap is in place. I don't see why Cryptic is so concerned with inflation in the raw dilithium currency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbreprime View Post
you could even introduce Elite versions of FAs, FEs, and any other missions in the PvE Queue
Is anyone else recoiling in horror at the thought of a Starbase Blockade with Tholians firing invisible one-shot Disruption Torpedos and unresistable 100% Tachyon shied drains in addition to their chain CC?
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