Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 1 Photons need a buff/rework
11-15-2012, 11:43 AM
So I think we've all noticed that with the advent of DOffemon, there's no compelling reason outside of being a major Trek nerd to go with photons over quantums, or any other torp really. They have no unique proc and their base damage isn't competitive, meaning they're effectively obsolete.

Some ideas I've had:

- A cooldown reduction debuff: when hit by a photon your skills accrue an extra half second or second's worth of cooldown; HY or multiple spread impacts can increase the length of this debuff
- Kinetic bump, causing you to recoil from impact
- Timed detonator: you can activate the photon explosion early, causing moderate AoE, or you can simply let them travel the full way before detonating

Thoughts much appreciated. Hopefully Cryptic will do something about 'em because right now they're collecting dust and it just ain't right.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 2
11-15-2012, 11:59 AM
This may be a dumb question, but aren't photons the highest continuous DPS due to their already low recharge time? Quantums are definately better for spiking with torp skills and cruisers who swing in for single shots before going back to broadsiding, but for nose-on-target ships like escorts and bops or rapid-firing torp boats loaded with doffs, I was always under the impression that photons were superior in that role?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 3
11-15-2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
This may be a dumb question, but aren't photons the highest continuous DPS due to their already low recharge time? Quantums are definately better for spiking with torp skills and cruisers who swing in for single shots before going back to broadsiding, but for nose-on-target ships like escorts and bops or rapid-firing torp boats loaded with doffs, I was always under the impression that photons were superior in that role?
DOffs bring torps down to the global cooldown (every second, iirc). This means you can effectively fire just as many quantums as photons.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 375
# 4
11-15-2012, 12:06 PM
If you utilize torp doffs in your active crew, yes, you'll have the same CD on Quantums as Photons, but many people do not and photons are still useful for them.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 5
11-15-2012, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
This may be a dumb question, but aren't photons the highest continuous DPS due to their already low recharge time? Quantums are definately better for spiking with torp skills and cruisers who swing in for single shots before going back to broadsiding, but for nose-on-target ships like escorts and bops or rapid-firing torp boats loaded with doffs, I was always under the impression that photons were superior in that role?
I think the OP is suggesting that if you actually care about torpedoes, you'll slot quantums and recharge time doffs. If you don't care about torpedoes at all, the fact that they're obsolete doesn't really matter because they probably aren't contributing meaningful DPS to you.

In that extent, I agree with the OP. Photons certainly need something to make them more competitive. I'm not sure that a buff is necessarily the answer. I was considering the question for a while, and I was thinking perhaps the answer is a change in how photons fire. Photons could fire individually, but by Voyager and later, photons seemed to tend toward a volley fire pattern. Perhaps photons should do the same. That is to say, for photons, rather than firing one photon torpedo worth (say) 2980 dmg every 6.5 seconds, drop the damage and fire rate so that you get them firing on a tick-tock pattern: torpedo, half second, torpedo, second, second, second, torpedo, half second, torpedo, second, second, second, torpedo, half-second, torpedo, etc, etc.

Adjust their DPS and DPV so that they don't hit any harder, at least in DPS. The advantage here, i guess, is that torpedoes let you keep the pressure on and exploit openings whereas Quantums are spike damage and the others have special effects.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,236
# 6
11-15-2012, 12:11 PM
Photons are fine, just that Cryptic made the other torpedoes too similar in capability.

I think what Cryptic should do to make photons more appealing for use is giving the more verstility. Like on the show you saw them be used as warp flares, their casings used for probes, and more. (So far, the Shockwave Torpedo from the Bellerophron can only be used with Photons.) All Cryptic needs to do is add more unique abilites for only Photon Torpedoes like I mentioned above.

While they are at it, other Torpedoes could have similar treatment as well with torpedo-specific traits.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 133
# 7
11-15-2012, 12:33 PM
No, no, please.... buff photons, I insist, the OP is completely right. They really need some love, and stuff.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,844
# 8
11-15-2012, 12:35 PM
HMM, sounds like it's brainstorming time again.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,460
# 9
11-15-2012, 12:51 PM
Photon torpedoes have a 15% higher basic DPS than quantum torpedoes do. This is thanks to their having a shorter reload time: 6 seconds versus 8 seconds.

Projectile officers have a chance to reduce reload time on the torpedo. Purple quality officers reduce the cooldown time by 5 seconds. It takes 1 second to launch a torpedo. The projectile officer chance is rolled 1 second after the torpedo launches because there is a 1 second global cooldown that can't be negated. After that one second, the photon's reload time is 5 and the quantum's reload time is 7. If the officer trigger, the photon launcher immediately fires again, while the quantum torpedo's reload time is 2 seconds.

In practical terms: The only possible scenario under which quantum can achieve comparable DPS to photon torpedoes is if you mount 3 quantum launchers so that you get around the 2 seconds left over after the projectile officer triggers. For 1 tube, or 2 tubes, photon torpedoes offer more DPS than quantum regardless of whether you use projectile officers or not. Three torpedo launchers gets into a gray area: the DPS on the triple quantums will be higher but only as long as you keep rolling chained launches, since quantum do more damage per shot and nothing can reduce the time between launches below 2 seconds. However: sometimes you will fail your officer's roll, and all your DPS advantage goes flying out the window because of your weapon's longer basic reload time.

tl;dr: There is no balance problem here.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 511
# 10
11-15-2012, 01:08 PM
There's a catch to your math momaw:

The proc can go off on every shot, quantuks have higher DPV, The global is 2 seconds not 1, and several doffs stack.

Have two torps and doffs?

Not only do you have 2 chances to proc it, but every time you fire a torp eitheir as a result of the proc, or after a normal CD the second one can and will fire after the global CD. Result is that with 2 seperate chances for it to go off and several doff's your chances of not getting a single proc are fairly.

The high DPV of quantums also means you don't need a photon level RoF to get the same or better DPS, they benefit more from a CD reduction so even 2 tubes can outstrip a photon setup when you have doffs. The math says anything over a 25 proc chance and the quantums are ahead. Certianlly with 3 purples Quantus make photons look dumb.


That said Quantums are no better than photons in heavy torp builds. You want Plasma or Transphasic for that as they don't need to punch a hole in somones sheild to be effective in the first place, so all the downsides of torps vs sheilds don't matter worth a damm.


Photon torps aren't in a great situation. But honestly the only time your going heavy on Doff's is with torps boats, and if your doing that your not running Quantums in any case. So yeah.
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