Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 842
# 1 Monetization
08-04-2013, 09:54 AM
First off, I posted this in a thread in general but since a lot of this post has to do with the DOff system I figured I'd repost it here as it's own thread. The first paragraph is referring to the ship interior system, didn't really feel like cutting it out since I took the effort to write it, so if you are only interested in reading the DOff part skip to paragraph two.

Cryptic is missing out on a LOT of monetization possibilities. Ship interiors in general being one, and doffing being another.

With ship interiors they could easily make a lot of money. All they would need to do is a little bit of market research to determine what type of bridges players want, then make them and sell them. Then they need to do further market research and figure out what quality of life upgrades for bridges that players would be interested in, make them and sell them. QOL upgrades could include but not be limited to exchange, mail, bank, etc. There are literally a ton of things they could add with little to no work and use micro-transactions on them and make a ton of money. I would pay 5-10 dollars to be able to hail the lore mission contact and do it from my bridge, same with doffing cadres and the cultural exchanges from the academy. All that would take is linking that contact with an additional terminal on board the ship that had to be unlocked via purchase. Then there's the vanity aspects of what players want that they could market as well. So many untapped resources for them to market that could make them profit without a lot of work.

With duty officers in a recent interview they explained the reasoning behind the grinder dilithium cost for doffs to go to a higher rarity. That cost being essentially that they aren't making enough money off of the packs that they are trying to sell. There are a number of different things they could do here. One thing would be to not have a limit on the number of doff roster slots that players can buy. Another thing would be to stop discontinuing packs in the cstore, by doing this they are limiting what you can even buy which is beyond stupidity. What they should do is add all of the currently discontinued packs back into the cstore at 300 zen instead of the 275. Or if they removed the bonus item that you used to get, simply drop the price to 200. Next what they could do is straight up sell doffs. Their packs are ok, hit or miss on whether you get what you want or not and that turns a lot of players off.

For instance if I was interested in buying a new purple doff because of the active duty trait, if I were to buy packs in an attempt to get one, the odds are stacked against me and I would likely not get what I was looking for. If I instead bought keys with the money and sold the keys on the exchange then bought the doff from the exchange with the ingame money I am getting exactly what I want at a fraction of the estimated price. The packs as is don't even guarantee a purple doff, and lets face it anyone who is serious about doffing wants the purples. If they added a interface for selling doffs similar to how the current dilithium store is that would be a very efficient way of marketing them. If they were to also sell doffs based on highly sought traits for commonly run missions that would also be a big money maker. I know people who have spent 160 million ec on a doff that drops from the latest pack due to their traits for running a mission. 160 million ec translates to 132.5 dollars if one were to buy keys (individually) and sell them on the exchange for 1.5 mil a piece. Granted doff sales at 132 dollars would be outrageous but people would be willing to spend money on them.

They need to keep expanding the doff missions that are available, and expand the items that they sell to match. They could also sell additional active duty slots, assignment slots, brig space, and colonist space. The market has a lot of untapped potential for Cryptic to expand on, but for some reason they don't.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,748
# 2
08-04-2013, 10:27 AM
Agreed 100%. And definitely not just doffs, there is sooo much they could profit on with little effort.
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Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 293
# 3
08-04-2013, 12:02 PM
omfg are you guys kidding with this?
you want more monetization?

ever heard of 'pay to win' and how it kills games?
bah. nice troll thread. smdh.


edit.. alright.

your math is bad.

Noones going to buy a beam overload doff for $5 in the cstore.
The chance on one from the romulan pack is minimal. like getting a ship from a lockbox about 0.4%.
They vary from 12 to 18 million on the exchange.
People will and are buying ten packs of master keys to sell. 10 keys is about 15 million. so cryptic is getting like 8 dollars for the doff. instead of 5 no one will want to pay for just a doff.
This works for ALL the merchandise you see on the exchange.
Your logic is flawed.
Real $ = zen = keys or fleet ship modules usually, = EC.
the keys that are bought and sold for ec are eventually used with a drop rate of less than 1 half of a percent on the GQ items. This seems to suit them just fine.

Last edited by lake1771; 08-04-2013 at 12:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,748
# 4
08-04-2013, 01:03 PM
lake1771, you know there's such a thing as 'ideas' 'examples' and 'this is just to give context', right? You're also raging at him over one little point in his post, so how about you add something constructive to yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by askray View Post
YAY I'M EVOLVED! *drools on his chin*
Quote:
Originally Posted by voporak View Post
Welcome to the STO forums, where the evolutionary clock ticks backwards.
The Forgotten Battle - a new Foundry mission
Check out my STO Youtube channel!
Why are you hovering over my signature? Play my foundry missions! :-)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 842
# 5
08-04-2013, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lake1771 View Post
omfg are you guys kidding with this?
you want more monetization?

ever heard of 'pay to win' and how it kills games?
bah. nice troll thread. smdh.


edit.. alright.

your math is bad.

Noones going to buy a beam overload doff for $5 in the cstore.
The chance on one from the romulan pack is minimal. like getting a ship from a lockbox about 0.4%.
They vary from 12 to 18 million on the exchange.
People will and are buying ten packs of master keys to sell. 10 keys is about 15 million. so cryptic is getting like 8 dollars for the doff. instead of 5 no one will want to pay for just a doff.
This works for ALL the merchandise you see on the exchange.
Your logic is flawed.
Real $ = zen = keys or fleet ship modules usually, = EC.
the keys that are bought and sold for ec are eventually used with a drop rate of less than 1 half of a percent on the GQ items. This seems to suit them just fine.
To start with it wouldn't be monetizing anything that isn't already or isn't already behind a paywall.

To get one of those beam overload doffs (right now) someone has to get it from the pack which costs money. That's option one. Option two is a player buys the doff from the exchange or from another player who has obtained it from the pack which costs money. Option three is a player buys the pack from the exchange which someone else had bought with money and posted on the exchange.

I fail to see how adding it into the cstore is any different from the current means of obtaining it other than the fact that it removes any chance aspect. As long as they don't make it bop then it shouldn't be an issue.

I also fail to see how adding more variety and options in what they sell would cause the game to all of a sudden become pay to win. (As if it weren't already). I'm assuming that the pay to win aspect is referring to PvP instead of PvE due to the fact that you can run any endgame mission minus nowin in common 10 gear and beat it. Let's face reality though, to be competitive in PvP against good players you have either already spent money, or have already spent someone else's money.

I believe the math holds up on the key buying as long as it is bought per key instead of in 10 packs. I can easily see how buying keys in 10 packs is the most bang for the buck so to speak.

If I saw a doff in the cstore with traits I desired at what I determine to be a reasonable price that I cannot find on the exchange, or at least not reasonably priced, I would buy it. Now I might just buy it with dilithium made zen instead of buying zen myself, but zen is zen. Someone still paid for it.

I'm not entirely sure what the last sentence has to do with the topic at hand, could just be that I'm tired. If you could elaborate that would be great.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,500
# 6
08-05-2013, 10:32 AM
i certainly agree that i've never bought a DOff Pack from the C-Store because of the one guaranteed "Blue or better" DOff... if there is no 100% chance for at least one purple and a high chance for a 2nd purple, i don't care.

add to that: there is NO way of upgrading C-Store doffs.
If you go to the academy upgrinder (which is priced way too high anyway), you will get STANDARD DOffs back = the worthless free stuff that i wouldn't spend money on anyway.

So the Pay 2 Win part of the DOff Packs is killing the "Booster Pack" idea behind it.


The LockBox mini DOpacks make the chances feel even worse, i've opened a lot of the Tal Shier minipacks. First there were NO romulans inside at all, all KDF DOffs. 2nd in 40 packs i got like 3 Blue DOffs... granted those were mini packs, but this doesn't exactly entice me to open the big packs if chances are SO bad to get anything good out of it.


----

the whole idea with the Bridges...
i agree to some extent that QoL options like you mentioned would be something i would maybe want to unlock for my default Fed Ships.

I have 11 chars, i will never have 11 Tufflis or Suliban Ships, neither do i want to fly around in "Freighters". Having a default FED / KDF / ROM interior with some new shiny options for a premium price... i certainly would want that. I very much like the Galor and D'Kora bridges that i have, but those are just 2 chars of 11, my default Fed Ships could use something like that too.


---

that said, more monetization is the LAST thing DOffing needs, the overly aggressive monetization is already hurting the system.

but my opinion on the current state of DOffing can be found here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=767801

don't want to take over your thread so i will leave it at that...
it's a few weeks old thread, but nothing has changed in the meantime.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 842
# 7
08-05-2013, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobang View Post
i certainly agree that i've never bought a DOff Pack from the C-Store because of the one guaranteed "Blue or better" DOff... if there is no 100% chance for at least one purple and a high chance for a 2nd purple, i don't care.

add to that: there is NO way of upgrading C-Store doffs.
If you go to the academy upgrinder (which is priced way too high anyway), you will get STANDARD DOffs back = the worthless free stuff that i wouldn't spend money on anyway.

So the Pay 2 Win part of the DOff Packs is killing the "Booster Pack" idea behind it.


The LockBox mini DOpacks make the chances feel even worse, i've opened a lot of the Tal Shier minipacks. First there were NO romulans inside at all, all KDF DOffs. 2nd in 40 packs i got like 3 Blue DOffs... granted those were mini packs, but this doesn't exactly entice me to open the big packs if chances are SO bad to get anything good out of it.


----

the whole idea with the Bridges...
i agree to some extent that QoL options like you mentioned would be something i would maybe want to unlock for my default Fed Ships.

I have 11 chars, i will never have 11 Tufflis or Suliban Ships, neither do i want to fly around in "Freighters". Having a default FED / KDF / ROM interior with some new shiny options for a premium price... i certainly would want that. I very much like the Galor and D'Kora bridges that i have, but those are just 2 chars of 11, my default Fed Ships could use something like that too.


---

that said, more monetization is the LAST thing DOffing needs, the overly aggressive monetization is already hurting the system.

but my opinion on the current state of DOffing can be found here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=767801

don't want to take over your thread so i will leave it at that...
it's a few weeks old thread, but nothing has changed in the meantime.
I certainly agree with your assessment of the current state of the offered packs. They simply aren't offering me what I want guaranteed so I would be much better off buying it off the exchange or from someone else.

I value your input on the interior QoL suggestions that I have made. They could do so much with so little effort and try to sell it. Linking something to a terminal would take little effort and could be sold for a couple of dollars.

I have bought both the D'kora and the Cellship (was planning on buying a Tuffli but the Tuffli got outclassed). The bridges on both are well done and very nice. The D'kora bridge is a little cramped and there isn't a place to put my Latnium trophies .

I believe you have misinterpreted what I meant by monetization. I do not mean monetizing missions and mission chains, or at least not in a popular extent. I believe that they should release more mission chains and such in sectors of space that don't have them, I believe they should release more officer exchanges, more asylums, and more everything. I also believe they should release all of those things for free.

What I do believe they should do is to go along with the free missions is to release packs or individual doffs that are useful on those missions. Say they added a chain identical to the Children's Toys chain that already exists except for the reward and the doffs needed to fabricate the reward. I think they should sell the doffs that could run the mission most efficiently.

I don't want to see missions behind a paywall at all. At least not large scale missions. The lockbox ones to get special doffs are okay in my opinion. I merely want to see the doffs and packs that are currently available in the cstore to be expanded upon. This would include bringing back discontinued packs, optimizing the pack structure to appeal to a broader base, selling individual doffs, selling unlimited doff roster upgrades, selling assignment slots, active duty slots, and brig/colonists slots.

None of those things would take a tremendous amount of work to do. Everything that I mentioned either already exists, or a form of it already exists so it would just need to be slightly modified to suit an additional purpose. I bet for the entire list it wouldn't take more than 8 hours work.

I read your thread when you posted it and for the most part agreed with everything you wrote in it.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,532
# 8
08-05-2013, 02:51 PM
@ Zero: this goes back to what I said earlier about how players undervalue purples. the doff system isn't designed to make it easy to get a full roster of purples. some people seem to think it should be easy, but... that's not how the game is designed to work.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 80
# 9
08-07-2013, 02:01 PM
I agree they could use more vanity items and less p2w console ships (because thats what they are either the ship is really good or the console is)

Lockboxes need to go but i doubt that will ever happen it's nearly 0 effort on there part and they sell so many keys because some people don't know when to stop. The chance rate on some of those ships and lobi ships means some of them are worth over $200.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,016
# 10
08-07-2013, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
@ Zero: this goes back to what I said earlier about how players undervalue purples. the doff system isn't designed to make it easy to get a full roster of purples. some people seem to think it should be easy, but... that's not how the game is designed to work.
Cryptic says players undervalue purples.

Players say Cryptic overvalues purples.

Do you see where I am going with this? It is the same exact reason everyone wants MK12 reputation gear and not MK11. Players want to have the best, to get the top piece and feel rewarded for spinning that old hamster wheel of a grind.

Otherwise they loose interest and leave the box.

TLDR: When it comes down to it the player 'perception' of value will drive the ingame economy (and sale of zen) not Cryptics. The sooner they learn that the better off we all will be. If you don't believe me ask yourself why so many lockbox keys are sold for Energy Credits to purchase Mk12 purple tactical consoles and weep for the math skills of our fellow players.
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