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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 92
Was tachyon beam nerfed into oblivion, or has it weekdays been this bad? I was asked to train it from my captain so I thought I'd give its shot-- I'd used it before at lower levels but hadn't tried it at level III. At the same time I got a doff that drains Shields with the tractor beam. Using them side by side, the tractor beam won hands down. Tachyon beam was a joke in comparison. This seems backwards to me: shouldn't the power designed from the ground up to drain shields that requires you to spec into it to train do more than a bonus ability from a doff I bought on the exchange?

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Darius (TAC VA) USS Gahreesen (Chel Grett Cruiser), Shomat (SCI VA) ISS Selentic (Mirror DSSV), Napoleon (ENG Capt.) USS Fists of Latinum (Exploration Cruiser), Gothmog (Tac Capt.) IKS Nazgul (Hegh'ta Heavy BoP), Aaesia (Reman Sci Capt) RRW Arien III (Ha'Nom Guardian)
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 2
04-22-2013, 09:12 AM
That's how it goes with sci abilities, they're pretty much always weaker than anything else that can do the same thing. The only exception I can think of at the moment is Antiproton Sweep vs CPB (although I haven't compared them directly recently, so I could be wrong on that).
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
04-22-2013, 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertiewooster View Post
Was tachyon beam nerfed into oblivion, or has it weekdays been this bad? I was asked to train it from my captain so I thought I'd give its shot-- I'd used it before at lower levels but hadn't tried it at level III. At the same time I got a doff that drains Shields with the tractor beam. Using them side by side, the tractor beam won hands down. Tachyon beam was a joke in comparison. This seems backwards to me: shouldn't the power designed from the ground up to drain shields that requires you to spec into it to train do more than a bonus ability from a doff I bought on the exchange?
With maxed out Flow caps, 4x Flow cap concoles and full aux power, what drain numbers are you seeing for these two?

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 138
# 4
04-22-2013, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
With maxed out Flow caps, 4x Flow cap concoles and full aux power, what drain numbers are you seeing for these two?
Very interested in these numbers also... I have a sci captain with a Fleet Nebula and just put on Tachyon Beam 3 a few days ago, I guess to troll myself I don't know... It was just terrible, that was with 3 MK XII blues and 9 in flow caps... It was just terrible...

If you could replace the drain from the entire shield and drain that same amount from the facing shield, it might be worth it...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 5
04-22-2013, 03:27 PM
you think that's sad? Try this:

nebula
all sci slots are flow cap consoles (mk11 blue)
9 pnts in flow cap
tachyon beam 3.
125 aux
reputation ability of +100 to all science skills.


tachyon 3 still sucks so very, horribly bad that a simple subsystem shield 1 attack with a single beam array does more shield damage.

the grim reality of science abiities is they will never. ever. be fixed. the devs have bent the game over and offered its rear end to the tactical stuffs ability to monetize.
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 92
# 6
04-22-2013, 04:22 PM
Okay, this is weird:

I've got 9 points in flow caps, I don't have the flow consoles in right now. I get something like -326.9 shields for tachyon each pulse, and -125 per pulse on the tractor beam. This is more inline with what I would expect it to be, and it performs as such. Here's the kicker though: it didn't do this before. I had retrained my officer with a different skill shortly after starting this post, but went back and gave them tachyon beam III again to get the numbers. I don't remember what they were exactly before, but they were sub 100 I think. Now they're over 300, and they actually work?I just tested, I was able to almost fully drain the shields of a borg BoP, which didn't happen before.

The only thing I can peg it as would be some sort of weird glitch I must have been experiencing. That being said, it's still too underpowered to be of much use outside of dealing with small targets in PVE. Anything bigger than a BoP, and it's not very useful.

______________________________________________
Darius (TAC VA) USS Gahreesen (Chel Grett Cruiser), Shomat (SCI VA) ISS Selentic (Mirror DSSV), Napoleon (ENG Capt.) USS Fists of Latinum (Exploration Cruiser), Gothmog (Tac Capt.) IKS Nazgul (Hegh'ta Heavy BoP), Aaesia (Reman Sci Capt) RRW Arien III (Ha'Nom Guardian)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,026
# 7
04-22-2013, 05:26 PM
Plus the added fun that you have to keep Tachyon on target for the whole duration, and its a 90-degree limited arc, vs self-targeting 360-arc tractor! Fun, isn't it?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 8
04-22-2013, 07:23 PM
-326.9 per pulse is so incredibly awful relative to anything else though. Put it this way: a single cannon should never be doing under 600 DPS. CSV1 on a single target is a 15% boost, or about an extra 100 DPS. Take 2 of those cannons and that's 200 DPS, figure the turrets are at 300 DPS (they're higher, but anyway) so the CSV is giving an extra 50 DPS for each one, assume 3 and CSV1 gives an extra 350 DPS with the same uptime and cooldown as the 326.9 from Tachyon Beam 3, assuming a single target. And that's with minimal skill, console, and power boosts to the CSV compared to having all those maxed out for the Tachyon, which is also an LtC ability rather than a Lt one. And if there's more than one target the advantage of CSV really goes through the roof (for 2 it's adding 2800 DPS relative to the ship unbuffed). This really needs fixing, actually it needed fixing a year ago at least and still nothing has happened (well, aside from buffing the resistance Borg get to Tachyon Beam massively, but that's a move in the wrong direction).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,454
# 9
04-22-2013, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
-326.9 per pulse is so incredibly awful relative to anything else though. Put it this way: a single cannon should never be doing under 600 DPS. CSV1 on a single target is a 15% boost, or about an extra 100 DPS. Take 2 of those cannons and that's 200 DPS, figure the turrets are at 300 DPS (they're higher, but anyway) so the CSV is giving an extra 50 DPS for each one, assume 3 and CSV1 gives an extra 350 DPS with the same uptime and cooldown as the 326.9 from Tachyon Beam 3, assuming a single target. And that's with minimal skill, console, and power boosts to the CSV compared to having all those maxed out for the Tachyon, which is also an LtC ability rather than a Lt one. And if there's more than one target the advantage of CSV really goes through the roof (for 2 it's adding 2800 DPS relative to the ship unbuffed). This really needs fixing, actually it needed fixing a year ago at least and still nothing has happened (well, aside from buffing the resistance Borg get to Tachyon Beam massively, but that's a move in the wrong direction).
It is a crap skill, but remember to multiply the pulse value by 4 since there are 4 facings. Iirc I got ~450/pulse w/212 in flow cap. That's 1800/pulse if all shield facing are included. It may be ok in PvE w/turnrate debuff boff & tb w/shield drain boff combained to keep shields from regening (still need weapons to strip them) while applying torps. For PvP the buffer & resists & passive repairs/regen boosts make it pretty low in terms of cost effectiveness. W/the added arc, it may be more viable in a team setup.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 10
04-24-2013, 07:50 AM
Oh wonderful, a thread already complaining about what I wanted to complain about.

Recluse carrier. My total Flow Caps skill is 235. I run full aux power all the time as a matter of standard practice on this ship.

Tractor beam 1 with a tractor doff drains 243.9 x 10 shield.

Tachyon beam 1 drains 368.4 x 10 shield.

As other people have pointed out, tractor beam is a 360 power. Its primary feature is that it slows or immobilizes enemies. It also causes damage, which means it can intercept heavy torpedoes and shuttles. The fact that it's 2/3rds as effective as tachyon beam at draining shields is just gravy.

Tachyon beam has no reason to exist. My front beam weapon is rated at 421 damage. Which means it will do more shield damage, in less time, than tachyon beam. And that's with no power to weapons, no tactical abilities, and no damage boost consoles.
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