Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 346
# 111
11-25-2012, 06:53 AM
Lessons in business, now from a dimwitted 12yo kid (hint: if you can't spell "foremost" and "precedence", you have no lessons to give to anyone about anything).


Sycophants will always exist. In every human gathering, there's always someone willing to not only take a kick to the shins, but thank the kicker afterwards.
Truth is, by introducing timers to what little endgame this "game" has, Cryptic has implicitly admitted what we all knew for a long time: they cannot devellop content fast enough/well enough to keep the playerbase occupied, so they need to make you wait, thumbs wildly twiddling, for 20+ hours every time you play 30min.

This is beyond retarded, beyond excusing and beyond unacceptable.


I have a small exercise for anyone willing to partake in it: check the past updates. Look back and see how much of it has been content vs how much of it has been cashgrab.
See for yourselves and reach the obvious conclusion: STO isn't a game. Hasn't been for quite a while. It's a shop.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 112
11-25-2012, 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecloud197 View Post
I have to disagree with your post, Unless you have a Masters In Business Management, But STO is first and Formost a Business. Which takes precidence over everything else.

If the business is not making money, it shuts down. Yes some of the business changes suck, but does it really suck or is everyone just resistant to change.

PWE isnt making changes to break your bank, to steal your wallet, if you think that, stop buying in game items. I know plenty of people that buy lock boxes, get lock box ships, and c store ships from dilithium conversion, and "Grinding" as you would. people that make you think "**** you must have spent a fortune" But no. just lucky in the lock box gamble.

PWE Isnt oblivious to what we want in the game, but you dont run a business, they have a team doing it, and its not simple to balance what the business needs to what the players want. PWE isnt trying to break the game or forcing you all to quit, change just takes getting used to. Personally, I dont mind the changes at all. if it takes longer to farm dilithium to finish projects. so be it, it just means im going to play the game longer.

Im quite happy taking 3 months to farm dilithium that used to take 2 months. but thats just me. as for fleet projects. if your having trouble filling them, you should have made a bigger fleet, or joined a bigger one. it seems pretty straight forward to me.
Actually, I do have a Master of Business Administration, focused on Marketing. I avoided bringing it up because I have no wish to turn this into a giant argument from authority.
Here are some basic rules I learned that product developers should keep in mind.

1) Keep changing constantly
2) Make sure the changes are GRADUAL!!!!
3) Changes should provide the customers with increased value (perceived benefit)


PWE/Cryptic has rule 1 down, no questions asked, but rule 2 and 3 not so much. This is exaclty why people are so angry.

I understand that this is a business, but there are far more honest ways of making money than tricking people into a lifer subscription, then dishonestly manipulating the dilithium exchange so that the value of the subscription diminishes. For example, I've seen some F2P games offer a la carte subscriptions. What do I mean about that? I mean if you have a subscription various services such as bank space, free upgraded ships etc could be bought seperately at a higher price if they are individually purchased than a subsciprtion package.

Clearly PWE has no idea how earn money without giving the perception (among the majority of clients) that they are ripping people off. This is a serious problem because PWE/Cryptic will constantly have to keep recruiting new customers instead of retaining repeat business. Retaining loyal customers is always cheaper than acquiring new customers.


That said, if PWE/Cryptic is interested in making real changes, I'd be happy to send you my CV, but I don't work for cheap.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 113
11-25-2012, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tosmessharr View Post
I have spent $700 on this game between a lifetime sub for 200 and the the other 500 on lock boxes. I have received NOT ONE rare lockbox ship. Yet when I log on to the game I find it so ridiculously over priced to use or aquire dilithium that I'll HAVE to buy more zen just to convert to dilithium if I need dilithium. I haven't donated to my fleet in over a week, and I hardly play the game now for more than ten minutes a day. I guess I'll log on atleast once or twice a week since I wasted money on a lifetime subscription. You know Cryptic... I paid a lifetime sub for the game as is. Atleast I could buy some zen.. an outfit, or some lock box keys. NOT HAVE TO BUY ZEN TO KEEP DILITHIUM STORES UP! You should have made ONE SMALL CHANGE, then surveyed it to see if it worked. Not screw up everything in some way and tell us to deal with it. Not when some of us have payed you for a "lifetime" and spent hundreds of dollors in six months. You know... you don't have to appease us. And sure.. you don't have to have our permission when you do things.. But I'd sure as heck make sure you aren't going to absolutely ENRAGE your players and cause them not to want to play by changing things YOU ALREADY HAD IN PLACE YOURSELVES!!


Anyway, I may be so bored and/or sick of the grind that I do not play at all in a few weeks. I just wanted to let everyone here know once and for all. BUYING ZEN IS A WASTE. I tested the odds on boxes. 500 lockboxes = NO SHIP. You'd think they'd give you a guarantee after that many boxes you'd get to pick one ship. Cryptic will not get another cent from me. And I hope you are doing the math Cryptic 700 dollars in six months... good lawd I've paid you for about 3 years worth already. I'll be sure to tell everyone I see exactly how you run this game and do my best to keep them from coming.

DOFFs - overpriced now
DOFF recruitment assignment = overpriced now
TWO reputation factions = tedious, time consuming, click click clicking
... and you must gather marks for BOTH factions
STF's = screwed up on loot now.
Starbase - now receive less from players because of the Embassy and TWO rep factions.

the list goes on...
I'm out. Atleast if I watch Star Trek TOS - Kirk won't keep asking me for handouts for shoddy work!

Jesus, I haven't spent half of what you spent and I'm already POed. I can only imagine how you feel. I almost got tricked into being a lifer (was gold), then after S7 came out, I asked for my money back as I was only a lifer for a couple days.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 114
11-25-2012, 08:26 AM
Not to put a damper on everyone's excellent posts but Cryptic doesn't listen to suggestions. If you don't believe me, just check the Tribble forum and see and check out the Black/Missing Textures in the Grahics Issues section. What they do respond to is stastics. Their changes almost killed STF's and we showed them by not playing and/or buying that content. That is how we make a difference and that is the only way to bring about change!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 115
11-25-2012, 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsww View Post
Not to put a damper on everyone's excellent posts but Cryptic doesn't listen to suggestions. If you don't believe me, just check the Tribble forum and see and check out the Black/Missing Textures in the Grahics Issues section. What they do respond to is stastics. Their changes almost killed STF's and we showed them by not playing and/or buying that content. That is how we make a difference and that is the only way to bring about change!

Actually that's what I'm doing. I started by not slating any fleet base projects. It turns out that my own decision (and from what i read, the same is happening in other fleets) was irrelevent, as people stopped contributing from the bottom up (probably because of the increased cost and decrease in dilithium supplies)>
Lieutenant
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 31
# 116
11-25-2012, 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbrady View Post
Actually, I do have a Master of Business Administration, focused on Marketing. I avoided bringing it up because I have no wish to turn this into a giant argument from authority.
Here are some basic rules I learned that product developers should keep in mind.

1) Keep changing constantly
2) Make sure the changes are GRADUAL!!!!
3) Changes should provide the customers with increased value (perceived benefit)


PWE/Cryptic has rule 1 down, no questions asked, but rule 2 and 3 not so much. This is exaclty why people are so angry.

I understand that this is a business, but there are far more honest ways of making money than tricking people into a lifer subscription, then dishonestly manipulating the dilithium exchange so that the value of the subscription diminishes. For example, I've seen some F2P games offer a la carte subscriptions. What do I mean about that? I mean if you have a subscription various services such as bank space, free upgraded ships etc could be bought seperately at a higher price if they are individually purchased than a subsciprtion package.

Clearly PWE has no idea how earn money without giving the perception (among the majority of clients) that they are ripping people off. This is a serious problem because PWE/Cryptic will constantly have to keep recruiting new customers instead of retaining repeat business. Retaining loyal customers is always cheaper than acquiring new customers.


That said, if PWE/Cryptic is interested in making real changes, I'd be happy to send you my CV, but I don't work for cheap.

They now how do. Look what they do on Champion online, that exactly the good way to do it, you are a free player you have basic thing you want more you pay for each part of thing you want. You are a gold member you have everything !!

I still not really understand why they don't do exactly the same with STO, for me is two options : they want kill the game or they think star trek fan are stupid and can spend more and more money


now i'm off to STO until they make things better and find some respect for gold member or i will not come back

Last edited by kara445; 11-25-2012 at 10:57 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 149
I agree totally with stopping the base projects until PWE wakes up and restores what was taken away!

Season 7 has introduced more requirements for dil and less ways to get it! Most of us have Jobs and Families and cannot spend all day grinding in STO to try and get the dil required now.

Dil farming did nothing to hurt the game and it provied a balanced way for players like me to build the bases. Now with the Embassy and Personal Reputaion systems online in Season 7, plus taking away dil "farming", it makes no sense to continue trying to get my reputaion or bases completed. So PWE, with your Season 7 "slam it down the players throat" approach, you seem to have killed the players, with jobs and family, desire to even keep playing. Do you realize that the players like me that have limited time to play each day, are the ones that are actually paying for Zen to keep up with the F2P grinders that have all day to grind the dil they need and not spend a dime on your game. Your balance towards the general masses (aka F2P) has created a total mess for the ones who buy your Zen! Check your revenue spreadsheets and see where your real income is coming from! It will not be from the F2P masses that you have now designed the game around!

Please listen to us before you lose the main source of revenue!

Stop the dil taxes! Stop the dil sinkholes! Stop the abuse of your player base!

Zeus
Creator of Olympus - Home of the Gods
"I don't test my code often, but when I do I test it in Production"The most interesting dev in the world

I rather be a fence post in Texas than the King of PWE
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 118
11-25-2012, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalolorn View Post
I said that because I know -exactly- how much effort it takes to get a doff mission started.

Virtually none at all.

Granted, FINDING the missions isn't a cakewalk, but all you need is about 100k EC (for commodities), a crapton of colonists, and some luck with the mission list to finish a colony chain. Which in turn gives all the purples you can wish for, which in turn provide a LOT of whites.

And your post was practically a written confession. You are well aware of these methods of getting good doffs, yet you still cry about the doffgrinder. I wonder why...

Ok but I have one criticism for this post. One of the main reasons I grind on the academy missions is I'm hoping for a nonbound purple engineer with resolve. None of the colonizing chains offers an engineer with resolve. I am fond of the "children's toys" doff chain which requires 5 engineers with resolve" to get something even halfway decent. I am willing to take the risk with blue doffs to get my purple engineer, but I will not pay through the nose. I also have a problem with bound on pickup doffs because I can't get rid of them (stuckin in my inventory for good) or trade them for a better doff in say "cardassian officer exchange missions". I'm afraid the colonization missions are not a subsitute for the academy missions. I think people like yourself are being overly dismissive of people's concerns about doff missions costing money because you're missing the point The point is not "is it possible to get purple doffs for free?". The point is, PWE is deliberately making more and more things cost dilithium, while drastically reducing the supply of dilithium to artificially inflate the cost of buying dilithium with real world money. The doffs are just another symptom of a greater problem.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 119
11-25-2012, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kara445 View Post
They now how do. Look what they do on Champion online, that exactly the good way to do it, you are a free player you have basic thing you want more you pay for each part of thing you want. You are a gold member you have everything !!

I still not really understand why they don't do exactly the same with STO, for me is two options : they want kill the game or they think star trek fan are stupid and can spend more and more money


now i'm off to STO until they make things better and find some respect for gold member or i will not come back

OR better yet, they could copy World of w and let people have ann unlimited number of characters, but cap people at level 30. Then allow people to continue once they become gold members. This would require PWE to do two things though.

1: Creat more content for KDF so that players can start at a lower rank (just like the Feds).
2: Produce a product that will make people want to keep playing for money.

The second part is difficult. Clearly World of W has been successful in giving players enough of a taste of their game that people want to continue. It demonstrates something else as well, confidence. The devs at Blizzard have confidence in the quality of their product and its appeal to customers. Why else would they let people try the game for free?

Last edited by captainbrady; 11-25-2012 at 11:20 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
# 120
11-25-2012, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus16nbs View Post
I agree totally with stopping the base projects until PWE wakes up and restores what was taken away!

Season 7 has introduced more requirements for dil and less ways to get it! Most of us have Jobs and Families and cannot spend all day grinding in STO to try and get the dil required now.

Dil farming did nothing to hurt the game and it provied a balanced way for players like me to build the bases. Now with the Embassy and Personal Reputaion systems online in Season 7, plus taking away dil "farming", it makes no sense to continue trying to get my reputaion or bases completed. So PWE, with your Season 7 "slam it down the players throat" approach, you seem to have killed the players, with jobs and family, desire to even keep playing. Do you realize that the players like me that have limited time to play each day, are the ones that are actually paying for Zen to keep up with the F2P grinders that have all day to grind the dil they need and not spend a dime on your game. Your balance towards the general masses (aka F2P) has created a total mess for the ones who buy your Zen! Check your revenue spreadsheets and see where your real income is coming from! It will not be from the F2P masses that you have now designed the game around!

Please listen to us before you lose the main source of revenue!

Stop the dil taxes! Stop the dil sinkholes! Stop the abuse of your player base!

Zeus

Here here!!
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