Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 41
11-19-2012, 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
You pity us? We get all the new content, all the new toys, constant developer attention, etc. The game is LITERALLY catered exclusively towards PvE gameplay. PvP was only added as an afterthought because some bean counter said "Hey, WoW has PvP, so we should have it as well!".

Keep your pity, you need it for yourself.
To be clear, they cater to making as much money as possible, not necessarily pve'rs vs pvp'rs. Catering to players would change the entire landscape of the game. The game is filled with examples of what I'm taking about. Bugs in the game that were here since launch. Lack of balance in the game should have one or two devs working on this full time. Putting THE best ships in the game in gamble lock boxes (making your playerbase gamble for gear...still have a hard time believing this one). Power creep in order to continue to sell ships with no regard as to how it balances out. BROKEN PROMISES. The last one applies to pve as well. Exactly what have they done with crafting? If you don't think they have pvp'ers in mind when they're developing content, your crazy. They give a small boost to every new ship knowing if we don't spend some money, we'll soon start falling behind the power curve. Now we don't have the numbers to get them to change the game if we start stomping our feet and whining, but please don't fool yourself into believing its because they favor you over us. It's because you represent more MONEY to them than us.

The decisions they make are money driven. They ARE a company after all. The problem is that they have the mentality of selling stuff to make a quick buck instead of creating a great balanced product putting the players wants and quality first, and developing a loyal base that is willing to spend money on their product. Most of us have have been gaming long enough to know the difference I'm talking among game developers. To make myself clear, I DO understand they're a company which means they HAVE to make money. It's their philosophy as to HOW to make money that I find at fault.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 42
11-19-2012, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Funny, over on the Battletech forums (you know, that game FASA produced that 'mechwarrior is a spin off of?) the words "Not ready for live" and "buggy as hell" are common descriptors from people who were IN the Beta for MWO. I guess it's a matter of perspective-going from a BAD PvP environment to one that is just "not ready for live and buggy as hell" must be proportionally an upgrade-from a certain point of view...or maybe it's just the temporary novelty of going from Star Trek to the pre-Clan Inner Sphere. It WILL be interesting hearing back from people used to the auto-targeting in STO when they discover they have to HOLD that laser ON a moving target to do damage, that missiles don't go over obstacles, and that you have to be practically standing on someone's undershorts to hit them with your autocannon.

and I can't WAIT to see you guys deal with the heat scale.
Dozens of us are dealing with all that just fine.

Bugs? Sure there are a few. Not ready for live? It's in open beta, of course it's not ready for live, or it would be live. And i was in the closed Beta for a couple months.

And it is a matter of going from a game of catastrophic pvp failure to one that is good enough while still under development. Development that is all headed in the right direction. Development that is focused on the pvp experience. It's a matter of completely un-fun vs mostly fun.
Arawn & Ihasa
OP *is* the new balance, whether you know it or not! Gecko says so.
Season 7 - Exodus, available online. U buy nao!
http://seekingalpha.com/article/7382...-latest-update

Last edited by thepleasuredome; 11-19-2012 at 12:28 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 43
11-19-2012, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Funny, over on the Battletech forums (you know, that game FASA produced that 'mechwarrior is a spin off of?) the words "Not ready for live" and "buggy as hell" are common descriptors from people who were IN the Beta for MWO. I guess it's a matter of perspective-going from a BAD PvP environment to one that is just "not ready for live and buggy as hell" must be proportionally an upgrade-from a certain point of view...or maybe it's just the temporary novelty of going from Star Trek to the pre-Clan Inner Sphere. It WILL be interesting hearing back from people used to the auto-targeting in STO when they discover they have to HOLD that laser ON a moving target to do damage, that missiles don't go over obstacles, and that you have to be practically standing on someone's undershorts to hit them with your autocannon.

and I can't WAIT to see you guys deal with the heat scale.
Well, to be fair, MWO is a shooter vs Sto which is not. I don't know much about the battle mech lore. I do know that MWO is buggy ATM with some memory leak issues. Thing to remember though is that they're still in beta vs a game that's live. How many major bugs they decide to go live with would be more like comparing apples to apples to Sto.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,623
# 44
11-19-2012, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by upyournacelles2 View Post
To be clear, they cater to making as much money as possible, not necessarily pve'rs vs pvp'rs. Catering to players would change the entire landscape of the game. The game is filled with examples of what I'm taking about. Bugs in the game that were here since launch. Lack of balance in the game should have one or two devs working on this full time. Putting THE best ships in the game in gamble lock boxes (making your playerbase gamble for gear...still have a hard time believing this one). Power creep in order to continue to sell ships with no regard as to how it balances out. BROKEN PROMISES. The last one applies to pve as well. Exactly what have they done with crafting? If you don't think they have pvp'ers in mind when they're developing content, your crazy. They give a small boost to every new ship knowing if we don't spend some money, we'll soon start falling behind the power curve. Now we don't have the numbers to get them to change the game if we start stomping our feet and whining, but please don't fool yourself into believing its because they favor you over us. It's because you represent more MONEY to them than us.

The decisions they make are money driven. They ARE a company after all. The problem is that they have the mentality of selling stuff to make a quick buck instead of creating a great balanced product putting the players wants and quality first, and developing a loyal base that is willing to spend money on their product. Most of us have have been gaming long enough to know the difference I'm talking among game developers. To make myself clear, I DO understand they're a company which means they HAVE to make money. It's their philosophy as to HOW to make money that I find at fault.
it's short-term vs. long-term.

As for the "PvE vs. PvP" argument...

Okay, person "A" is a PvE'er, and all that...well...once you've finished and completed EVERY STF, every mission, your Rep in both ranges is filled to the brim, you have all this stuff...what then?


What do you do NOW??

You can finish MOST PvE content in a Miranda with MkII weapons, no consoles, and only a couple Boffs with no Duty officers on-duty.

The stuff you're grinding for is only useful for...(drumroll please? thanks!)

PvP.

Why do you think ALL the useful advice on builds, Doffing, Boffs, and specs comes not from Cryptic, but from the PvP forums?

Because this is where you FIND the guys who can faceroll Hive Onslaught on Elite with a three man team, without using exploits, bugs, or Bugships. (Slight exaggeration, but only slight. Maybe a 4 man team...)

This is where you FIND the people who can take a Tier II ship and pound an Oddy into scrap metal without mussing their digital hair.

PvP support is LONG TERM THINKING-no team of Devs can generate new material faster than two groups of five players beating the **** out of each other, and PvP'ers spend MONEY and, honestly, it's the PvP'ers who make your Vestas, JHAS, Steamrunners, and the like possible, by pointing out what works, and what does not.

because they actually KNOW what works.

An AVERAGE PvP build is better on STF than a GOOD PvE build. There's a reason-the research work is done on PvP, the real testing is done?

On PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,725
# 45
11-19-2012, 02:33 PM
Right on man!


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 197
# 46
11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
it's short-term vs. long-term.

As for the "PvE vs. PvP" argument...

Okay, person "A" is a PvE'er, and all that...well...once you've finished and completed EVERY STF, every mission, your Rep in both ranges is filled to the brim, you have all this stuff...what then?


What do you do NOW??

You can finish MOST PvE content in a Miranda with MkII weapons, no consoles, and only a couple Boffs with no Duty officers on-duty.

The stuff you're grinding for is only useful for...(drumroll please? thanks!)

PvP.

Why do you think ALL the useful advice on builds, Doffing, Boffs, and specs comes not from Cryptic, but from the PvP forums?

Because this is where you FIND the guys who can faceroll Hive Onslaught on Elite with a three man team, without using exploits, bugs, or Bugships. (Slight exaggeration, but only slight. Maybe a 4 man team...)

This is where you FIND the people who can take a Tier II ship and pound an Oddy into scrap metal without mussing their digital hair.

PvP support is LONG TERM THINKING-no team of Devs can generate new material faster than two groups of five players beating the **** out of each other, and PvP'ers spend MONEY and, honestly, it's the PvP'ers who make your Vestas, JHAS, Steamrunners, and the like possible, by pointing out what works, and what does not.

because they actually KNOW what works.

An AVERAGE PvP build is better on STF than a GOOD PvE build. There's a reason-the research work is done on PvP, the real testing is done?

On PvP.
I'm not sure if my post wasn't clear to you or if I'm misunderstanding your post, but your not saying much that I disagree with here. Just to be clear, I do as little pve as possible. The pve grind that is S7 is why I'm not playing the game at all right now. If they improve pvp, I'll definately come back to play. The chance of me coming back is the only reason I'm still here in the forums fighting for a better future for sto's pvp. If my previous post led you to believe otherwise, I apologize. I was simply pointing out that its not as simple as "cryptic caters to pve'rs".
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