Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 75
# 11
11-18-2012, 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
You can pick up purple XI weapons on the exchange for fairly cheap. Just buy a less used weapon energy type. You can also do missions for blue Mk XI weapons for no cost, and they're about 97% as effective. This is what the OP is talking about with the sense of entitlement. You don't need a full set of Mk XII antiproton weapons within 2 days of hitting 50, the difference isn't even that significant,

Normal STFs are still a complete joke that can be easily completed in green Mk X gear. I have no idea where this ridiculous exaggeration started.
Not a sense of entitlement, but making someone pay extra for something that was basically free is the problem.

So now they have to hit the daily grind doing the "Tour" to earn EC for the weapons and gear. You can't even buy XII antiproton stuff on the exchange - So it is either join a fleet or suffer through the reputation system if you want it.

If you think for one minute NEW people can do stfs in green X gear you are kidding yourself. You might can do them if you have the right setup AND already have played the game awhile. NEW <--- you know the ones who have never played before.

I have a Fleet patrol escort - XII Maco set - I have NEVER even came close to dying in a normal STF and very rarely in an Elite STF. With the install of season 7 I have seen way more hull damage on my ship. I haven't changed anything and from what I can tell they didn't nerf anything on my toon or gear. So they had to up the damage on the stfs (might have been a minor change they made somewhere that impacted the stfs) The tons of other players on here are over exaggerating too? Not like i would waste my time coming on here if it wasn't a problem.

if you enjoy wasting your dilthium and time grinding out all this stuff go right ahead. I am going to do the tiers to get my passive bonus and save my dilthium for other things.

The simple fact is a MK X borg deflector cost 450 Omega marks 14000 dilithium 10000 XP and 30 communication arrays which use to cost me 5 EDCs..... yeah this system is really fair .......and to TOP it OFF I have to wait 40 hours to get the gear. And that is NOT an exaggeration that is pure fact. That is for ONE (1) piece of gear!!!

Last edited by quickdraw74; 11-18-2012 at 11:18 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,339
# 12
11-18-2012, 11:53 PM
Yes there are those in the 'we want it all now' category, me, I am more in the...

"They want us to pay HOW much for ONE piece of equipment?" group.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 13
11-18-2012, 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quickdraw74 View Post
Not a sense of entitlement, but making someone pay extra for something that was basically free is the problem.

So now they have to hit the daily grind doing the "Tour" to earn EC for the weapons and gear. You can't even buy XII antiproton stuff on the exchange - So it is either join a fleet or suffer through the reputation system if you want it.

If you think for one minute NEW people can do stfs in green X gear you are kidding yourself. You might can do them if you have the right setup AND already have played the game awhile. NEW <--- you know the ones who have never played before.

I have a Fleet patrol escort - XII Maco set - I have NEVER even came close to dying in a normal STF and very rarely in an Elite STF. With the install of season 7 I have seen way more hull damage on my ship. I haven't changed anything and from what I can tell they didn't nerf anything on my toon or gear. So they had to up the damage on the stfs (might have been a minor change they made somewhere that impacted the stfs) The tons of other players on here are over exaggerating too? Not like i would waste my time coming on here if it wasn't a problem.

if you enjoy wasting your dilthium and time grinding out all this stuff go right ahead. I am going to do the tiers to get my passive bonus and save my dilthium for other things.

The simple fact is a MK X borg deflector cost 450 Omega marks 14000 dilithium 10000 XP and 30 communication arrays which use to cost me 5 EDCs..... yeah this system is really fair .......and to TOP it OFF I have to wait 40 hours to get the gear. And that is NOT an exaggeration that is pure fact. That is for ONE (1) piece of gear!!!
I thought I remember JamJams on Tribble chat saying that the rep system is a faster way to get the gear?
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
They taste the same.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 14
11-19-2012, 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by piwright42 View Post
I have 14 toons and only time to play two since season 6 started. I am seriously considering deleting the vast majority of them. That makes me frustrated.
14 toons? God on a pogo stick riding a dinosaur. How do you manage all of them in 24 hours?
How to really behave in online forums with developers

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 15
11-19-2012, 02:46 AM
Darramouss1

Why? Because until now you've had it better than any other game I can think of. STO has been far more generous than other games by giving you more goodies faster than you probably should have been given them.

Why can't you appreciate that fact and be happy that you had such a good run? Why maintain a sense of entitlement? Why should you have more than other MMO players?

For argument's sake, let's assume that season 7 actually benefits the game and leads to a stronger STO future. Would you still prefer season 7 to be dialled back just so you can gather more dilithium?
-----------------

Given ?
Good run ?

Do you wear mk 12 elite armor with all the accolades ?

I earned this almost everyone wearing it earned it
Apparently you have not or you would not make such
A far fetched statement.

I earned a Jedi first run I'n SWG so I know all about hard long
Grinding. The grind here getting all 4 mk12 sets with all the optionals
Was pretty darned close to it

The Jedi grind was solo and was longer this required a team
And was much harder.

The tier system will be long and boring and no
Challenge, the only positive thing about it is the accolade
Armor at the end cannot be bought it will have to be
Earned
Season 7 wasn't ready and still isn't we are play testing it
For STO
I really don't think STO cares about us current players anyway
There banking on new players IMO that won't know any better

Swg did the same thing (3) times
Jellico....Engineer.....Stargazer KDF Tac
Saphire.. Science.....Ko'el Rom Kdf Tac
Leva........Tactical.....Mailu KDF Sci

JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,448
# 16
11-19-2012, 02:58 AM
We had very similar points raised when dilithium was first introduced. People who had the time spoke about how there just wasn't enough dilithium sources to reward them. Why were they being penalised for having more time to play than the game saw fit to reward them for? They felt that they couldn't progress (in collecting diltihium).

Now we have a situation were we can obtain the resources easily, but can't spend them fast enough. I disagree that we don't have recognition of effort or time put in though. But again, people feel they can not progress. Its the other extreme.

I wonder what the feeling would be if Cryptic were to reduce the rewards (marks) so that people did not find themselves with such an ample supply (I too have literally hundreds now) that they can not use immediately. Would that help to adjust people's game experiences? if they couldn't obtain the materials as readily as they can now, would that change their view of having their progress hampered? I think it would. I also think that it would lead to calls for more resources to be dropped, but overall, people would have to actively play in order to meet the resource burden - on time. By the time it took for the project to complete, the person would literally only just have enough resources to place into the system again.

In some ways, I think this is what cryptic were aiming for, but they've got the numbers all wrong. There is nothing inherently wrong with artificial timegates on content when the purpose is to buy time for developers in the MMO space to create new content. Every online game does it. The challenge is to to provide a means to keep your players from
a) realising it
b) being frustrated by it
c) feeling like they can not progress
d) feeling like the rewards are not compelling

Cryptic has failed on all four.

I would like to see some readjustment of the resource numbers frankly. I can't believe I'm saying that to be honest.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 17
11-19-2012, 03:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
But Joe Smith has been slowed down as well. The only way he can achieve your pace is by playing the same or more hours than you.
Or by paying more money .



Quote:
Why? Because until now you've had it better than any other game I can think of. STO has been far more generous than other games by giving you more goodies faster than you probably should have been given them.
I have highlighted something that you seem to come back to in your arguments .

I'd like to know how do you figure that "we've had it better" , on multiple fonts ?

- How do you figure I payed less then if I had played "another game" ?

- How do you figure I played less then if I had played "another game" ?
(I have a ton of toons and 2 accounts -- it's only "easy" if you have one single toon . The collective "sport" before F2P was "no new end game so roll another toon")

- How do you figure that other games matter at all when they don't have STO's exact financial model , nor the same offerings to a player .
Other gaming companies have other financial models (other things they charge for) , so to me that's comparing apples/oranges . Thus it is irrelevant to my STO experience , and yours as well I might add .

- And for arguments sake , even if we've had it "better" , WHY must we now fold , slow down and "repent" ?
Why the killjoy ?
(I'm asking Cryptic that too btw)

Quote:
Why can't you appreciate that fact and be happy that you had such a good run?
I do .
Sadly that is exactly how I feel since S.5 .
The best run this game had was it's first 13 months . The Devs were energized , motivated , creative , proud , and it showed . Oh boy did it show .
I look at those days and I look at today and I get a cramp in my belly .


Quote:
Why maintain a sense of entitlement?
Can't speak 4 anyone else , but I'm a firm believer of "if you don't want me to have it , don't give it to me and then take it away" .
I don't like that in RL , but sometimes I have to take it .
I don't have to take it in my gaming time tho . I come here 2 have fun , not to feel like I'm being toyed with by irresponsible shortsighted and lazy game makers .

Quote:
Why should you have more than other MMO players?

Apples and oranges , said it before .
STO has no more relevance to WOWZERS then the latter has on the former .
If Cryptic is that hard up to make fundemental changes , they are welcome to develop and present the next STO MMO , "STO 2 : insert flashy title here" .

But that'd take work ... , and Cryptic does not like to do that very much .
Look at S.7 :
Almost half of it is repackaged content / awards .

Quote:
For argument's sake, let's assume that season 7 actually benefits the game and leads to a stronger STO future.
That was the argument ppl floated at S.6 , and at S.5 / F2P .
It had merit in S.5 .
It sort of had merit at S.6 .
In S.7 one has to look reality in the eye and ask if it's just raining or is Cryptic just "watering" on our heads out of habit and/or arrogance and/or incompetence .

Lucky r those who got an umbrella ... , and patience to walk in / ignore the "rain" .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .

Last edited by aelfwin1; 11-19-2012 at 03:19 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
# 18
11-19-2012, 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
But Joe Smith has been slowed down as well. The only way he can achieve your pace is by playing the same or more hours than you.
Wrong. I don't think you understand how the these time gates actually affect the pacing of the game. I shall use my own experience as an example.
I used to play several hours every day. Do some STF's, a few fleet actions for marks, contribute a bit to the starbase, etc. I still do this, in fact, but spend about half as much time doing so, because now the rewards I have grown accustomed to are far away, locked behind an arbitrary two month wait, minimum.
However, to make use of the reputation system I don't even have to do that much. The costs involved for the XP projects are trivial. I can easily dip into my vast pile of resources to fill them on demand. Unfortunately I can only do this once every two days.
The pace at which I can advance is no longer based upon my efforts or skill level, but artificially limited by increments that are only available after a minimum two day wait. In other words, I have the resources for a meteoric rise to the top, but am now forced to slowboat it at the same pace as someone who can only afford to play a couple hours every other day. I've been forced to advance at the same rate as... a filthy casual gamer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Why? Because until now you've had it better than any other game I can think of. STO has been far more generous than other games by giving you more goodies faster than you probably should have been given them.

Why can't you appreciate that fact and be happy that you had such a good run? Why maintain a sense of entitlement? Why should you have more than other MMO players?
Allow me to demonstrate the ridiculousness of your argument by applying to something else.
Why? Because until now you've had it better than any other job I've ever had. Your employer has been far more generous than other companies by paying you more money than industry average.

Why can't you appreciate that fact and be happy that you had such a good run? Why maintain a sense of entitlement? Why should you have more than other people in your line of employ?


The answer: People don't like it when they're comfortable $78,000 job gets cut to minimum wage because management thinks you'll be happier getting paid as much as intern. Especially if they're a more productive employee than most of their peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
For argument's sake, let's assume that season 7 actually benefits the game and leads to a stronger STO future. Would you still prefer season 7 to be dialled back just so you can gather more dilithium?
I can easily rebut that with...
For argument's sake, let's assume that season 7 actually cuts the player base in half, significantly reducing PWE's confidence in the game. Would you still prefer season 7 to proceed on its current track, just so you can enjoy time gated content?

But to actually answer your question: No. If it led to a "stronger" STO future, then I'd certainly be in favor of it. But at this juncture, such an assumption appears completely wrong. When I catch someone stealing my candy bar I don't think happy thoughts and assume they'll hand me a benjamin for letting them get away with it. I smack their hand and draw attention to the thief so everyone knows to look out for him.
Similarly, when developers make a design decision that the players end up not liking or, in this case, hating with a vengeance, the proper response is not to take it on the chin, but speak up about it. I play STO to have fun; presumably that's why everyone else does too. If the game changes in a way that decreases the amount of fun I'm having with it, I will certainly make Cryptic aware of it.
If the players aren't having fun with their game then they'll play it less, pay for less content, and Cryptic will make less money. Then nobody wins.

Last edited by ocilon; 11-19-2012 at 03:27 AM. Reason: grammar error
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 114
# 19
11-19-2012, 06:34 AM
There's seriously so much chop-logic in the OP's post that I had to read it three times before bursting out laughing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
So many upset people because [of] dilithium in season 7. People saying that the game is now a grind, that starbases have stopped and that STO has become a second job.

My question is what's the rush?!
Let's see.

First, people have been 'angry' about the way the starbases have been set up for quite some time. The system put in place in S7 seems to be everything people don't like, now wrapped around all the new content.

Second, people complained about not being able to get Mark XII STF gear due to it never dropping. People spent months trying and getting one or two pieces. Instead of adjusting drop rates, Cryptic's answer is to take away the stockpile you have built up and lock it up behind a crate you can't open, and then stick time gated blocks in your way.

So instead of being able to get the gear you want and recognizing the time you've put in grinding, you are treated as if you are just starting to play. This is in no way a reward.

Third, some people pay monthly for this game, instead of lifer for F2P. So yes, the idea of time-gated content is probably extremely off-putting to them. Why should someone be penalized for supporting the game? Because looking at the timelines people have put together that's what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
It seems that people are in a mad rush to do everything NOW! My question is why? Why not take time to look around, see the galaxy, explore somewhere you haven't before?
I'm not sure if you've taken leave of your senses or are trolling, but a lot of people who are upset have been playing since launch. With the exception of the Romulan Sector, which will not take very long to get to know, there is absolutely nothing in the game I have not done ad nauseam, both Fed and KDF. Most people were excited about S7 due to the promise of lots of new content and the idea that they could finally get the gear they wanted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Secondly, if you're trying to beat other players then surely you must understand that they're in the same boat as you're in. In that case you're never going to beat someone who can spend more time or more money on the game. Same as before season 7.
How about if you're not paying their sub, you stop trying to tell others how to play the game? If Goofy McRich wants to blow $500 in the C-Store, more power to him, he's supporting the game. Building up a method that gives this sort of person no reason to do so is a net financial loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
When I was growing up I had to earn things by working and saving for what I wanted. If there were delays, such as me having other expenses or the price of what I wanted going up, I took it on the chin. My parents were proud of that mentality as they told me it displayed maturity.
That's not even a remotely accurate comparison. In order to make it accurate, you would have to be told that how hard you work is irrelevant, and that anyone who bothers to put in the minimum effort will eventually get there.

This isn't about 'other expenses'. This is about the company deliberately slowing down the rate at which you progress to encourage you to spend money, and lying about what the stated goal is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
Out of all the games I've ever seen where you needed to earn and unlock stuff, I've found STO to be the most generous. Regardless of whether the game was PC, Xbox or playstation, STO seemed to give stuff up faster. Now it seems that STO is following suit from all the other games I've seen.
Here's the thing. STO does not have good graphics. It does not have a compelling (or even coherent) storyline. It does not have the best PVP, it does not offer a real crafting system, it's player driven economy is bipolar, and it's cash-store is the most money-grubbing of any of the rest I've seen. The big draw to STO so far has been the access to neat gear, and NOT having the so-called 'elite gaming overlords' have stuff you'll never see.

Until STF's added Omega Gear. But hang on, S7 is supposed to correct that. Except it doesn't. It just ensures that by the time you make the stupidly long grind, they'll have had the time to put out something else. It removes all incentive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post
How about instead of being angry at this change we show maturity and be thankful that we had it so good for so long? Remember, the new players coming after us won't ever have the chance to accumulate like we've had .
I'm not sure you understand the words 'maturity' or 'thankful'. I'm not very thankful that i grinded a ton of STF's and the EDC I got from them is in a box I can't access. I'm not thankful that I have to work a starbase like system designed to drain my credits and waste my time for nothing I don't already have .

I bet you new players without any STF Gear are really unhappy about the system that makes them not worth bringing into a fight.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,159
# 20
11-19-2012, 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

My question is what's the rush?!

It seems that people are in a mad rush to do everything NOW! My question is why? Why not take time to look around, see the galaxy, explore somewhere you haven't before?
You are talking to the MTV Generation. Delayed gratification is a dirty word. Attention spans don't exceed three seconds. It's all about me.
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