Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,404
# 51
11-19-2012, 02:13 PM
STO's "Starfleet" is a bunch of mercenaries wielding miniguns and freaking napalm grenades killing everything and everyone that moves. This game is a disgrace for this name but it has always been. Think of it as "Mirror Universe Online" and let everyone wear a moustache :p

(My signature speaks for itself I think )
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"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 458
# 52
11-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Yeah, and I'm a tribble.

(Or were you being sarcastic?)
You're a tribble huh?

Picard by killing the Borg queen effectively deposed the governing body of the Borg (no pun intended). I call that a violation of the non-interference directive.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 53
11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Technically this is still against the Prime Directive.
Is it? As far as I can tell the Prime Directive is aimed at not taking advantage of less developed civilizations. Later shows like Enterprise and Voyager tried to take it to extremes to build up drama when they were incapable of writing anything good, but its NOT about being isolationist ostriches who stick their heads in the ground and hope for the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvehero View Post
omg... you're just as bad as them...
OP, reading the quote it doesn't say they struck at refugees. I would imagine if anything they struck at Tal Shiar forces. Why would you assume they attacked refugees?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,282
# 54
11-19-2012, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidneutronium View Post
You're a tribble huh?

Picard by killing the Borg queen effectively deposed the governing body of the Borg (no pun intended). I call that a violation of the non-interference directive.
Are you saying he should have let the Borg assimilate Earth?

Besides, there really is no "governing body" of the Borg. It's a hive mind.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 55
11-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvehero View Post
Aha, so we're helping setting up a rebellion? Playing one faction agains another in an internal power struggle? Well THAT'S certainly not in violation of the Prime Directive...

IF ONLY!! I can only WISH the story was that good. Besides, is the prime directive actually the correct philosophy to follow? It certainly is portrayed as such in Stat Trek while I remain unconvinced. That said I abhor the way its been mutated into a hands off at all costs quasi religious mantra. No, letting whole sentient species die just because they didn't know to ask for help is NOT OK. Neither is trying to justify it to yourself by pretending that helping them would bring about potentially worse consequences.. unless you are clairvoyant. And if you CAN see the future and choose the least terrible option regardless of the cost in the present then you are STILL having to justify playing God.

Face it kiddies, the Prime Directive as originally intended was good (protecting less advanced civilizations) but what the later shows spout as the "prime directive" is just a crutch to create artificial drama. Seriously if a rule makes you go against your morals and common sense its pretty clear its become an immoral rule. Even a barely coherent caveman can see that, no fancy starships needed if you have a bit of common sense!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,282
# 56
11-19-2012, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Besides, is the prime directive actually the correct philosophy to follow? It certainly is portrayed as such in Stat Trek while I remain unconvinced. That said I abhor the way its been mutated into a hands off at all costs quasi religious mantra. No, letting whole sentient species die just because they didn't know to ask for help is NOT OK. Neither is trying to justify it to yourself by pretending that helping them would bring about potentially worse consequences.. unless you are clairvoyant. And if you CAN see the future and choose the least terrible option regardless of the cost in the present then you are STILL having to justify playing God.

Face it kiddies, the Prime Directive as originally intended was good (protecting less advanced civilizations) but what the later shows spout as the "prime directive" is just a crutch to create artificial drama. Seriously if a rule makes you go against your morals and common sense its pretty clear its become an immoral rule. Even a barely coherent caveman can see that, no fancy starships needed if you have a bit of common sense!
I agree with this. I couldn't believe how Worf and Picard were reacting in "Homeward" when Nikolai wanted to save a few (just a few!) of the Boraalans from certain death. Protecting less advanced cultures is a great idea, but letting them die out like that is absurd.
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,947
# 57
11-19-2012, 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvehero View Post
I was in a mild shock yesterday, after I beamed down to New Romulus and spoke to Valoth...




Now first of all... we are talking about refugees from the Romulan homeworld. Groups of survivors trying to rebuild their lives and society. Starfleet approaches them, offering to help.... Starfleet... their sworn enemy! That they have been taught from the cradle are the most vile and untrustworthy creatures in the universe... Would YOU expect them to accept "help"?

So they refuse. And WHAT does Starfleet do? Against fleeing refugees? Preemptive strikes!!! To stop the Romulan refugees from rebuilding their society like they want!

This is actually making me cringe... I feel sick to my stomach! What RIGHT does Starfleet have to dictate the Romulan society? What gives them the right to used armed force against refugees? This is the most un-starfleet dialogue box I've EVER seen!!! To sum it up, Starfleet is:
- Taking side in an internal conflict.
- Trying to control the development of an alien society.
- Using armed force against civilians and refugees.

And if this wasn't enough...

Questioning your orders is NOT ok??? As long as we follow orders we are not responsible? Really? Starfleet Captains hiding behing a Nuremberg defense? This makes me sick!



We KNOW from Star Trek that this principle applies. We have seen Starfleet Captains reject direct orders from superior officers on many occations, based on their belief that the order given was unethical or unlawful. It's not only a choise, it's the obligaion of all Starfleet personel!

But in STO, I'm expected to not only accept this atrocity, but also to aid in it's execution!

Picard...would not...approve...
Hey, if you want a TNG example, Captain Edward Jellico would have no issue with such orders, and would in fact probably be tghe one picked to carry them out were they given 30 years or so earlier. I don't think James T. Kirk would have an issue either.

Not every Star Fleet captain (or Admiral for that matter as Picard got chewed out for his handling of the events in the TNG episode I Borg by an Admiral in a later episode (so that was on screen); is like Jean Luc Picard. Some will actually fight once in a while BEFORE their ship shieldds drop; and they've taken damage or casualties (rewatch TNG and see how often that happens before Picard returns fire.) Personally, I would hate to be a poor crewman (of any rank) serving under Picard as I stand a good chance of being a casualty.

Just saying.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says: "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."

Last edited by crypticarmsman; 11-19-2012 at 04:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,008
# 58
11-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timelord79 View Post
The new ROmulus colony is warp capable and has officially asked for help. The Prime Directive does not apply.
Well there is actually TWO faces of the Prime Directive. The first is from the TOS series. Non-interference with pre-warp civilization. To allow them to develop on their own natrual course.

The second face of the Prime Directive came into it's own with Star Trek:TNG. It's is more political in nature. It was hinted at in The Original Series but not fully explored. The Federation doesn't want a Starfleet Captain to drag the into a potential conflict like a civil war. That decision has to come from Starfleet Command and the Federation Council.

The Prime Directive (Political) definitely does apply to New Romulus. But the decision to intervene was made by the Federation Council and Starfleet Command not by a local Starfleet Captain on the scene.

Starfleet Captains do have the autonomy to a decision to potentially violating the Prime Directive. But the examples we've seen has been when life and limb have been in danger. In the Oringal SEries episode "A Taste of Armegeddon", Ambassador Robert Fox order the Enterprise into Eminiar system after being warned off. The Enterprise was destroyed in the computer war between Eminiar and their colony Vendikar. Kirk intervened in the war in order to save the life the Ambassador, the Enterprise and it's crew. And in TNG episode "Justice" with Wesly being sentenced to die for stepping on the flowers. Picard struggling over his decision to violate the Prime Directive.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,482
# 59
11-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Who cares if Picard doesn't approve? Its Janeway or the high way.
nynik | Join Date: Dec 2009
<Dev> Oaks@dstahl: *checks for CBS listening devices in the office*
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,008
# 60
11-19-2012, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solidneutronium View Post
Picard is no saint. First Contact is the best example. We see him overthrow a legitimate government to advance his own agenda. The line must be drawn here....
Overthrow a government? He did no such thing. He did violate orders. But given the potential bad that did/didn't come of it, it turned out to the the correct decision.
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