Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 41
11-19-2012, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxottoman View Post
Don't be fooled by percentages. The sub nuke doff boasts a 1% chance to clear all your buffs. So with what you're saying there's a 99% chance it won't. You see something wrong with the picture here? I do, that's why we don't use the doffs and it's frowned on by many in this community. This doff is close, but not as lethal. You'll see.
Well that's 1% for every shot landed correct? So it's 1% pretty much every second you're under fire which gives it a 60% chance at procing over a period of a minute. [These numbers are just estimates and could be completely wrong, but I am using them as an example as to why this 1% procs so much higher than you would think a 1% proc should hit.] And I completely agree with you about the subnuc doffs. Your testing was instrumental in getting them to change them, it's just a shame that they didn't actually fix anything with the change, which I think is one of Cryptic's larger balance mistakes to-date (first the introduction of them, and then not fixing them even when they seemed to actually try to fix them). These subnuc doffs need a re-re-evaluation.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 42
11-19-2012, 02:39 PM
It seems like it might be easier to release these new things in a notably underpowered state so that any changes are in the upward direction and not a nerf. People grow attached to these new gimmicks, and that's not a bad thing, but no one likes to have the rug pulled out from under them. Unfortunately, sometimes that exactly what needs to happen.

I like that the VM Doff has some limitations on it and that many make sense. Relatively short range for the jump, low tier impact, unboosted by player stats. Do I understand correctly then that it doesn't work with the current VM Doff, allowing it to effect multiple systems with each jump?

And what about a 10-20 (random number suggestions) second immunity to all future VM effects? It may not seem like much, having 3 chances to land a 20% proc, but it adds up rather quickly (as with anything that stacks).

I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but my concern is that this will lead to Team Doffs that turn ET, ST, and TT into some kind of AoE effect. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a cool move but if the heals are too strong we could end up back to the point where no one dies, or debuffs become completely worthless (TT already makes FOMM and the like kind of a joke).

To be clear, I'm not trying to make this new VM Doff out to be the boogie man. I'm just using it for illustrative purposes.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,651
# 43
11-19-2012, 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You're comparing the proc rate of a Doff that attaches to Energy Weapon activation (several per second, every second of every battle) to one that attaches to a Bridge Officer ability that can, at max, be fired once every 30sec (possibly ~28sec with certain gear).

Talk about apples to hand grenades.
that vm doff is not op bort, not at 2.5 range. at 5 range it would be useful, and at 7.5 to 10 it might be op if a whole team was using 2 copies. most of this stuff is not that problematic, the jam doff is what im most worried about,

can we get particulars on how much damage you can cause before the jam breaks? with 9 into countermeasures and 0 into counter measures?

and does the EPtS doff buff your sensors and dampeners skills or something?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 945
# 44
11-19-2012, 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You're comparing the proc rate of a Doff that attaches to Energy Weapon activation (several per second, every second of every battle) to one that attaches to a Bridge Officer ability that can, at max, be fired once every 30sec (possibly ~28sec with certain gear).

Talk about apples to hand grenades.
Wow, that's even worse than what I thought. I'm really not sure how you can defend these subnuc doffs or the changes that you have made to them. We're talking about a super-high chance at procing without even having to activate anything. On top of that, we're talking about procing the most powerful ability in the game that is limited to only Science Captains. I just don't understand the thought process that went into reworking these doffs when you clearly show you understand the implications of raising the proc from .5% to 1%.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 376
# 45
11-19-2012, 02:52 PM
And we also dont have any info about how many of those doffs can be equiped...

And if new doffs share limitations with the old ones (eg. max 3 system engineers)

And how many of those EptA engineers can be equiped?

etc.

That is very important to know
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,656
# 46
11-19-2012, 02:55 PM
Indeed the Jam sensors doff is going to be complete BS most likely.

As it is on my torp brel I can jam someone and unload a ton of torps they don't see coming... being able to do the same with cannons again could be an issue.

It seems like the newer Devs don't remember why the Old Devs made a few changes... I mean it was fun to run 2 jams in kerrat back in the day and kill people with Battle cloak and the original version of Enhanced battlecloak (jam)... really though I'm not that nostalgic. lol
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 112
# 47
11-19-2012, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudiefix1 View Post
And we also dont have any info about how many of those doffs can be equiped...

And if new doffs share limitations with the old ones (eg. max 3 system engineers)

And how many of those EptA engineers can be equiped?

etc.

That is very important to know
If they are the same profession, it doesn't matter whether they are vanilla or spiced up versions of the doffs, the limits on equipping them don't change. Bort stated that as a reason why sub nuc doffs could not be limited to 1 because they are Energy Weapons Doffs

Edit: So 3 for those new maintenance doffs. Note, this will mean you can't run as many maintenance doffs for reducing your Eng team cooldown
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 48
11-19-2012, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
You're comparing the proc rate of a Doff that attaches to Energy Weapon activation (several per second, every second of every battle) to one that attaches to a Bridge Officer ability that can, at max, be fired once every 30sec (possibly ~28sec with certain gear).

Talk about apples to hand grenades.
I did not compare those two doffs. Look who's jumping to conclusions now.. lol

I told him not to use that kind of rationale when looking at percentages. When the SN Doff procs, it is devastating, even though it's an itty bitty 1%.

When this doff procs, it will be devastating even though it has a 20% chance. We all know what viral does, it does not take rocket science to realize the effects of viral on 3+ targets on the same team. It will be devastating.

Now that you brought up the topic, are you going to address the SN Doff ? Or how about Power Siphons? Btw, I'm not comparing them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,730
# 49
11-19-2012, 03:00 PM
My pug healer weeps a little inside.

2 VMs with their doffs are bad enough.


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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 297
# 50
11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
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