Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,829
# 11
11-20-2012, 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
Say what you want about games like WoW, TOR, LotRO and others... They all have grind associated with them, but at least in those games they try to cover it up by folding it into other gameplay mechanics.

And they are nowhere near as brutal as the grindfests here.

I cannot believe I am actually about to say this, but if THIS is what STO is going to be all about, I wish it would be made more like WoW...

Now pardon me while I go vomit for having just said that...
You mean how TOR took on WoW yeah worked out well for them.

let's see TOR's F2P model....hmmm want to do anything gotta pay for it

want normal EXP points gotta pay for that, want to dress up your companion, gotta pay for that, want to change the color on your outfit gotta pay for that, wanna sprint gotta pay for that....etc

their grind.....kill X amount of rats to finish mission, bring X amount of meat for that mission....yeah American, and Chinese MMO's are really not that different.

They both want your money, and you have to grind something to get something if it's either Dilithium, or EXP, Currency.

Paid for by the down with Bajor Party
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 956
# 12
11-20-2012, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcconna View Post
Thought most of the outrage came from dil being nerf in a lot of places, now it's the content overall? Hard to please. lol
I don't mind Dilithium sinks. It gives a reason for earning it other than to just trade for Zen. They want more people buying Zen directly. And since Zen sales is what drives their revenue wagon now, I don't blame them. Under this direction, those with both a disposable income and a "gotta have it" mentality will spend real money on Zen to get the Refined Dilithium they need to make the goal. But the costs are high enough, coupled with time gating, to ensure that even those who spend real money to decrease the grind still cannot rush way ahead of those who have the time to gether at least 8k Dilithium ore per day.

We may not like how it does it, but this approach actually brings those who grind in gameplay into an uncharacteristically close balance with those who "pay to win".

Let's face it. Those with a disposable income typically have less time to sit in front of the computer grinding because they spend a great deal of time working to earn that income. A combination of time-gating and high Dilithium costs makes it so they can achieve at the same pace as someone who has the time to grind.

The system itself is logical. However, it becomes a problem when fun gameplay takes a back seat to it. It does seem though that they at least made an effort to try to make the New Romulus grind interesting by incorporating story into it. But at the end of it all, the only real reward, unless there are plans to incorporate the Embassy and Starbase status into a greater, more player-driven endgame mechainic, is something that just says "I either grinded my butt off or spent a lot of Zen to get this shiny that really does nothing substantial over anything else at its level..."

What I, and the KDF players should be afraid of is, assuming that Cryptic does make good on developing Season 8 to be a KDF content push, that they will gate the unlocking of said KDF content with time sinks and astronomical Dilithium costs with the same lackluster reward at the end of it that testifies to time spent grinding or Zen spent in pursuit of it. Based on the previous two seasons, I somehow get the feeling that the KDF content season won't just be a collection of new missions...
I'm glad you like this game.

As for me... I like games that I can play, not games that try to play me.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,437
# 13
11-20-2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
...

I cannot believe I am actually about to say this, but if THIS is what STO is going to be all about, I wish it would be made more like WoW...

Now pardon me while I go vomit for having just said that...
But that's basically what New Romulus is..

A theme-park instance where you go from quest hub to quest hub filled with daily quests that you can only do once a day to slowly progress through reputation grinds..



Personally, I'd rather see them do something with the exploration clusters where you develop a colony while managing relations with the factions of that frontier. You might befriend one faction and gain benefits from them, but you'll make enemies of rival faction(s) in the process - having to protect the colony from raids and such. It makes much more sense, thematically, for this game than trying to turn into grindy wow-clone #92314.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 455
# 14
11-20-2012, 09:33 AM
The thing is what do you want?? No win situation

STF's are too long!!!! Takes forever and people bail
Answer: tear them apart & make them shorter
STF's are to short not enough challenge!
Answer add elite and new armor
It's takes to long to gather I hate random drops!! I play play play & not a maco drop!
Answer make it more grinding but a guarantee of getting your gear!
This sucks!! I have my gear already & don't like this!! Plus I want the new adapted now!
Everything you put out gets gobbled up like a fat man and thanksgiving dinner!
Answer reputation system so you cant get everything in one dose
I want star bases!
I hate star bases I'm not in a fleet.
Plus it's takes hard work and time to build it!!
There is no content in game!
Answer a whole new sector to explore! New planet! New skill rewards!
I hate the new planet!! Done it all in a day and I now want new content! Where season 8!!
I hate space make it ground!
I hate all this ground we need more space!
I'm bored with the same STF!
Answer a new set if STF!
The hive is to hard!!!!!
The hive is easy and boring!!! New STF plz
This game cost to much! Other games are free!
Answer its free!
Omg it's a fire sale! I paid life and its free now?!?!
Cstore stuff cost to much now the game is free!
Answer don't spend a darn dime of real money! Grind it in dill & exchange for zen!
I hate grinding for dill!!

I'm not making fun!! Really! But sto is the ultimate Kobayashi Maru.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 956
# 15
11-20-2012, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoakiraii View Post
You mean how TOR took on WoW yeah worked out well for them.

let's see TOR's F2P model....hmmm want to do anything gotta pay for it

want normal EXP points gotta pay for that, want to dress up your companion, gotta pay for that, want to change the color on your outfit gotta pay for that, wanna sprint gotta pay for that....etc
Or, if you like the game (and people actually do, for some strange reason) you could subscribe and get all these things. They are in it to make money. I get that. And I am FINE with that

Quote:
their grind.....kill X amount of rats to finish mission, bring X amount of meat for that mission....yeah American, and Chinese MMO's are really not that different.
Well, last I checked, killing the mobs themselves gives xp. Turning in the quest gives more xp. I remember when the only way to get XP was to just kill the mobs. THAT was grinding. At least wrapping a quest around it eases it a bit. Not only that, but the missions are directed content which essentially familiarize the player with what mobs drop useful stuff and which ones drop just vendor trash.

Quote:
They both want your money, and you have to grind something to get something if it's either Dilithium, or EXP, Currency.
Like I said, that is good. They should be trying to get money. It's what businesses do.

The problem is that while Cryptic has a system that by design should work, the hoops the grindfests make players jump through are essentially more of the same crap they've been doing all along. Fun takes a backseat to Function. If they can figure out how to make it fun, then it won't feel like such a chore.
I'm glad you like this game.

As for me... I like games that I can play, not games that try to play me.

Last edited by sirsitsalot; 11-20-2012 at 09:44 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 956
# 16
11-20-2012, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmarsh View Post
The thing is what do you want?? No win situation

>SNIP<

I'm not making fun!! Really! But sto is the ultimate Kobayashi Maru.
No joke...

It's the same thing with every MMO really. I don't really see a solution...
I'm glad you like this game.

As for me... I like games that I can play, not games that try to play me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 159
# 17
11-20-2012, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marielang View Post
hello i have been playing STO over 2 years now. I have before played 12hr days 2 or 3 days a week. Im in the top 1% of sto players on raptr. I love this game. Now along comes season 7 and wow after an a couple hrs im just bored discouraged and depresed. Im far from stupid I look at the number of instances open and the number of people in them.

I can see im not the only one who is feeling this way. I have been quite vocal and prolific on the forum so far. and have seen the level of outrage on them. far more then previous seasons. the other day suddenly a large number of threads Ive been following got closed all at once????

cencorship?? realy?? this is your responce?? The first sign of maturaty is the ability to admit your own mistakes. Take full responceablility for them, and work hard to corect them. All I see so far is a small micro mia copa in the stf dill thing. Unfoutunatly the problems run far deeper. You could get away with much in reduction in dill reward incress in dill cost if you had just made it the least bit fun and exciteing.

Insted you have made it dull and uninspireing. I do feel sorry for you that you have spent so much time and effort on this, but you missed the mark badly. For all our sakes I hope you can get past your ego's roll up your sleeves and fix this sooner then later. I would as a lifer like to enjoy playing your game agian as it stands now is just a chore, and thats just YUCK
What do you mean you can see how many people are in them? Do you mean see how many people are qued up? Cause you cant see that anymore. Or is there some other way im not aware of that shows how many people are in different zones at one time?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,437
# 18
11-20-2012, 10:28 AM
I presume they were referring to instance counts(not event queues).. and seeing how many people were in each one when you change instance.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
# 19
11-20-2012, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoakiraii View Post
You mean how TOR took on WoW yeah worked out well for them.

let's see TOR's F2P model....hmmm want to do anything gotta pay for it

want normal EXP points gotta pay for that, want to dress up your companion, gotta pay for that, want to change the color on your outfit gotta pay for that, wanna sprint gotta pay for that....etc


their grind.....kill X amount of rats to finish mission, bring X amount of meat for that mission....yeah American, and Chinese MMO's are really not that different.

They both want your money, and you have to grind something to get something if it's either Dilithium, or EXP, Currency.
TOR's F2P model is horrible. They took a good game and made everything cost money, turning the game to ****. STO has a much better F2P model, but there's no good rewards for anything (Dilithium nerf) and we're being told to keep grinding the same content we've had for over a year. Both games seem determined to take what's good about them and ruin it with poor business decisions.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 20
11-20-2012, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsitsalot View Post
Say what you want about games like WoW, TOR, LotRO and others... They all have grind associated with them, but at least in those games they try to cover it up by folding it into other gameplay mechanics.

And they are nowhere near as brutal as the grindfests here.

I cannot believe I am actually about to say this, but if THIS is what STO is going to be all about, I wish it would be made more like WoW...

Now pardon me while I go vomit for having just said that...
The whole thing strikes me as a desperate, final dash for cash before they roll out Neverwinter and shut STO down for good.
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