Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 11
11-21-2012, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Or just give us more counters.
That is just going to increase the power creep, Cc abilities are suffering enough. HE already clears everything, heals and buffs resists. Which means we need so much more cc to overcome the already universal counters from ensin BO, and one skill tree options counters all.....
Penalties in terms of CD seem the way to go. AMS shares cd, with SS, JS, and VM. Additionally make them drain energy, or include other opportunity costs. How about: anti-matter will weaken your shield giving you an 25% bleedthrough for 10s after use.

Together we this can balance individual consoles, cd's would be a start.
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# 12
11-21-2012, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Lower tier ships are the reason that will never happen. You buy yourself a ship for a few lvls with the knowledge that you can at least use the console at max lvl. They can't justify the price otherwise.

But it would still leave the option to bind the console to a ship class. Like AMS comes with a cruiser so it's only useable on cruisers. While I doubt they will change the consoles since it would mean many upset customers they could at least have some restrictions for new consoles they are going to create.

Also I think the biggest problem of consoles is that they break the balance of counters. Normally you would need high lvl science slots on your ship for most cc abilities. That kind of limits them and makes it able for a team to carry a sufficient amount of counters. Now with the consoles every ship can carry additional high lvl cc abilities but no ship can carrier additional counters.
So how can we balance this? What we need are probably things like more immunities after we got hit with something. Or maybe an increasing resistance during a match? Like each time you get hit by grav pulse you gain some resistance and the next hit will have limited duration, or something like that.
Or just give us more counters. Might be the best and easiest way. Like let Aux to Struct cure grav pulse. Give some additional powers the ability to clear the effects of consoles. That would not really affect pve, the consoles would still be useful in pvp but we would have an easier way defending against it.

Give us a chance at fighting the consoles. Who knows, if can build proper build to fight them the pvp community might actually accept them.
thats why "class" consoles would be best. they could only fit onto ships that meet that class.

like grav pulse only be usable on science ships, or AMS being a cruiser only thing etc etc.

like it used to be...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 13
11-21-2012, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
That is just going to increase the power creep, Cc abilities are suffering enough. HE already clears everything, heals and buffs resists. Which means we need so much more cc to overcome the already universal counters from ensin BO, and one skill tree options counters all.....
Well I would introduce console only counters. Meaning the ordinary CC abilities would not really suffer. At the moment we need ET to clear VM. Now ET shares a cooldown with TT and ST. So very few carry an ET or have it ready when needed. That means we can't really defend against grav pulse since we are already short on ET. If we had another way to counter grav pulse the console would not be that much of a problem. Now grav pulse is only an example. If we put console counters on already popular heals, like let's say TSS would clear AMS. That means I could force to them to use TSS on someone who is not in the need of healing and therefore reducing their ability to heal the person who gets attacked.
It would just mean almost everybody could counter AMS but it would still be useful to draw out heals. Also since TSS only gets a specific AMS counter and would not clear SS science in general should be ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post

Penalties in terms of CD seem the way to go. AMS shares cd, with SS, JS, and VM. Additionally make them drain energy, or include other opportunity costs. How about: anti-matter will weaken your shield giving you an 25% bleedthrough for 10s after use.

Together we this can balance individual consoles, cd's would be a start.
Shared cd would also be a way to go. And longer immunities after the ability hits you even if its cleared. Something like after you get hit by AMS you are immune for 30sec. One console is mostly not the problem, it's more a team spamming them.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 14
11-21-2012, 05:34 AM
Wonder if Borticus can add some input to this
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,703
# 15
11-21-2012, 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Well I would introduce console only counters. /snip


Shared cd would also be a way to go. And longer immunities after the ability hits you even if its cleared. Something like after you get hit by AMS you are immune for 30sec. One console is mostly not the problem, it's more a team spamming them.
i don't remember when exactly, but Bort commented that because they want people to be able to combine console powers, shared cd for c-store consoles are not an option. Still, giving them Cds with BO abilities seem a possibel way to introduce opportunity costs.

I really like immunities to prevent chaining.

As for counters, I'm just afraid that having HE TSS and ST clear everything punishes cruisers and sci ships. People are already bitchin about having to bring ET, sorry you escorts can't bring all that alone. Maybe if LT.Cmd and Cmd level sci/eng skills were the counters I could see some use.
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# 16
11-21-2012, 06:52 AM
PvPers have great ideas, but they only listen to bean counters.

How else do you explain the influx of nonsense consoles and doffs of limited utility to PvE, yet disastrous consequence to PvP?


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# 17
11-21-2012, 07:08 AM
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
anyone remember when they were orginally like that?


.... then they released the lower tier ships with consoles and all hell broke loose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetam1 View Post
Lower tier ships are the reason that will never happen. You buy yourself a ship for a few lvls with the knowledge that you can at least use the console at max lvl. They can't justify the price otherwise.
As much as the Idea of locked Consoles sounds like a good one these people are right.

They released many lower Tier vessels with consoles just to sell them and if not for the console they would never have been bought by the playerbase.

If they revert to locking them down then I wish to have a refund for my purchasing of the Qorgh at Commander level since the Bio-nueral warhead is now useless, refund for my purchase of Puyjag and the GpG, a refund for the Chi'Tang and its Subspace jumper console, a refund for the Ning'Tao and its Quad cannons, etc etc. The list could go for quite a while as the proposed changes would lock the consoles down to a Lower tier purchase that loses all value when you rank up to endgame.

If one uses the console sor not is irelevant as a purchase was made becuase the consoles can be used on other ships as one ranked up and thats the only value said purchases had for most players.
Make Fleet versions of said vessels that can use the same consoles as thier lower tier counterparts and it would be better than just locking them down all together on purchases made in good faith.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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# 18
11-21-2012, 07:11 AM
Yeah, it would be a cluster**** of epic proportions.

Just not worth it even if it introduces some balance to the consoles. The headaches from giving refunds would not make it worth it to Cryptic/PWE.


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# 19
11-21-2012, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post

As for counters, I'm just afraid that having HE TSS and ST clear everything punishes cruisers and sci ships. People are already bitchin about having to bring ET, sorry you escorts can't bring all that alone. Maybe if LT.Cmd and Cmd level sci/eng skills were the counters I could see some use.
Well I would say since every ship can bring every console why should not every ship be able to counter it? Mind you I don't want them to be able to counter the Boff skills, only the consoles. I don't want to punish cruisers or sci ships, I just want everybody to be able to defend against a console and not against Boff skills.
But even if you make other skills into counters, like Aux to Struct. Yes it can be used by almost everyone but it needs at least a lt eng station. That means if you want it use you might loose RSP. And with 2 EPtS you are probably full in an escort and can not carry something like ET to defend against VM.
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# 20
11-21-2012, 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Yeah, it would be a cluster**** of epic proportions.

Just not worth it even if it introduces some balance to the consoles. The headaches from giving refunds would not make it worth it to Cryptic/PWE.
Only becuase it goes back to something that Cryptic has pulled many times in STO, invalidating a purchase's value after the fact.

Fix the issue but stop making me regret (again) the spending of my money on STO.
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goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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